GDG- Ex Parte Vallandigham - Prequel
Margaret D. Blough
mdblough1 at comcast.net
Wed May 21 20:03:33 CDT 2008
Dick,
Apology accepted. It's easy to forget that not everyone knows the acronyms that one is used to using.
Regards,
Margaret
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Richard M Kadas <rkadas at sbcglobal.net>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Margaret,
> Please accept my apology. I did infer absolutism because of my total ignorance
> of the meaning of the acronym "IIRR'.
> BR,
> Dick
>
> mdblough at sprint.blackberry.net wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> You read degrees of absolutism in my messages that simply aren't there. I
> prefaced the Carthage remark with IIRR (If I Recall Right) which indicates a
> degree of uncertainty.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard M Kadas
>
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:48:04
> To:GDG
> Subject: Re: GDG- Ex Parte Vallandigham - Prequel
>
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> How are you able to state it as an absolute that the result of war with Carthage
> was the object of tacitus' epigram when, at best, it is one of several
> possibilities. About which of the three Punic Wars was he writing? What are your
> sources? Google answers is not an acceptable option. .
> Dick
>
> "Margaret D. Blough" wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Or it may be a modern riff on the durable quote by Tacitus who said " “They (the
> Romans) make a desert, and they call it peace." IIRR, he was commenting on the
> Roman defeat and obliteration of Carthage.
>
> Regards,
>
> Margaret
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "jack"
>
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > Greetings.
> >
> > That quote has been, in many forms, used for decades now. I think the
> > original quote was "We had to destroy the viollage in order to save it",
> > IIRC. As It has been attributed to many people, including Peter Arnett, who
> > attributed it to an unidentified army officer. ETC ETC Etc. As history, it
> > is most likely a myth. As a metaphor for war, its scarily right on.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard M Kadas"
> > To: "GDG"
> > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Ex Parte Vallandigham - Prequel
> >
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > What an interesting rational. It harkens back to the U.S. Army junior
> > > officer who was caught on TV circa 1968 saying, "We had to burn the
> > > village to save it." Tacitus put it more succinctly when he wrote, "They
> > > created a wasteland and called it peace.(he was referring to the Roman
> > > army campaigning in Britain).
> > > Dick
> > >
> > > "Margaret D. Blough" wrote:
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dennis,
> > >
> > > It should be noted that Confederate authorities arrested the fiery East
> > > Tennessee Unionist William G. "Parson" Brownlow in December 1861 and
> > > "escorted" him into Union lines in early 1862. Civil liberties quite
> > > frequently take a beating in wartime, even in republics and/or
> > > democracies, and civil wars, which make distinguishing friend from foe
> > > difficult and fear of the enemy within that much more intense, are
> > > particularly problematical for civil rights and liberties.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Margaret
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Dennis Lawrence
> > >
> > >> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> To Edwin M. Stanton
> > >> Executive Mansion, Washington,
> > >> Hon. Secretary of War May 13, 1863.
> > >>
> > >> My dear Sir Since parting with you I have seen the Secretaries of
> > >> State and the Treasury, and they both think we better not issue the
> > >> special suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus spoken of. Gov. Chase
> > >> thinks the case is not before Judge Swaine, that it is before Judge
> > >> Levett, that the writ will probably not issue, whichever the
> > >> application may be before; and that, in no event, will Swaine commit
> > >> an imprudence. His chief reason for thinking the writ will not issue,
> > >> is that he has seen in a newspaper that Judge Levett stated that
> > >> Judge Swaine & he refused a similar application last year. Yours
> > >> truly A. LINCOLN
> > >>
> > >> Annotation
> > >>
> > >> [1] ALS, DLC-Stanton Papers. On May 4, Clement L. Vallandigham had
> > >> been arrested, on orders of General Burnside. On May 8, Burnside
> > >> telegraphed in reply to a non-extant telegram from Lincoln, ``Your
> > >> dispatch just rec'd. I thank you for your kind assurance of support &
> > >> beg to say that every possible effort will be made on my part to
> > >> sustain the Govt of the United States in its fullest authority.''
> > >> (DLC-RTL). The furor in Ohio and throughout the North over the arrest
> > >> and ensuing trial was such that Secretary Stanton feared the impact
> > >> on Union morale if the U.S. district judge should ignore the general
> > >> proclamation suspending the writ of habeas corpus. On May 13, he
> > >> therefore prepared an order especially suspending the writ in
> > >> Vallandigham's case and drafted an accompanying despatch to Burnside.
> > >> Both documents, unsigned, are
> > >>
> > >> http://www.civilwarhome.com/vallandighambio.htm
> > >>
> > >>
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