GDG- Buford at fairfield
William Hewitt
hewittw at embarqmail.com
Thu May 8 16:25:29 CDT 2008
Tom-
I was reading Buford report and in it he says he went thru Boonsborough,
Cavetown and Monterey Springs to get to Fairfield. I take that to read
Buford came in from the west clearing the pass as he came.
Cashtown for battle is another black hole, so here I go.... I do not think
Cashtown was ever a preferred place of battle for the Conf. Let me go back
a bit. Lee says in reports that he was attempting during this time to
prevent the AOP from attacking his line of communication--- coming up from
the south in the Cumberland Valley. Other than the dated comments to
Trimble and Ewell Lee made comments to Hood and the staff officers about
finding the Federals on 30 June.
Lee had meeting with Hill about noon on 30 June and I will conjecture that
Hill told him Pettigrew was already beyond Cashtown along with Heth. Pender
was headed there and Anderson following. (I do not know if Hill ordered
Anderson on his way to meeting with Lee or on his way back to the front.)
It was Lee that directed Ewells' trains to precede Longstreet. If Lee were
going to stop at Cashtown on 1 July, Longstreet would have gone first. 14
miles of trains would have clogged the roads and Longstreet would have been
stuck for a lot longer on wrong side of mountains.
Cashtown is a lousy place to voluntarily fight. Insufficient water and
forage.
No maneuver space and no space for trains, admin and hositals etc. He would
be pinned with his back to mountains with a single road for regress. Trains
would have had to been located toward Fayetteville etc.
Now for the headache: lee's stated goal was to prove to the Federals that
the Conf had entered the Susquehanna Valley -- to draw them away from Lee's
line of communications. To accomplish this, Lee could not just go the
Cashtown and hunker down, hoping the Federals would figure it out. Lee had
to make contact with a sufficiently large enough force to prove to the Feds
that he was in the Sus Valley--- and not the Cumberland.
Lee himself writes that his force was directed to Gettysburg! Early
authors, NYE included, have embellished Cashtown--- motivation???? Perhaps
to show that Hill failed to follow orders and brought battle on there--
exonerating Lee.
So Cashtown was a temporary focus, but once cleared by a sufficient force
(suggest 2 divisions- maybe a corps depending on enemy situation), it became
irrelevant.
There is more but this is enough to get someone's blood up...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
On Behalf Of gettysburg-request at arthes.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:17 AM
To: gettysburg at arthes.com
Subject: Gettysburg Digest, Vol 48, Issue 14
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Today's Topics:
1. Reynolds as Wing Commander (elcarto at comcast.net)
2. RE: Buford at Fairfield (Tom Ryan)
3. Re: Hallowed Ground (Linda J Guy)
4. Re: Hallowed Ground (JIM COOKE)
5. RE: More Names (William Nolan)
6. RE: More Names (Richard M Kadas)
7. RE: RE: Gettysburg Digest, Vol 48, Issue 12 (J. David Petruzzi)
8. RE: More Names (William Nolan)
9. RE: More Names (Kerry Webb)
10. Re: More Names (NPeters102 at aol.com)
11. RE: More Names (Chuck May)
12. RE: More Names (Cassy Gray)
13. Guild Press tech support (Tom Ryan)
14. RE: Buford at Fairfield (Tom Ryan)
15. RE: Buford at Fairfield (Mike Nugent)
16. RE: More Names (Mudwall Jackson) (Cassy Gray)
17. RE: More Names (Mudwall Jackson) (Edward F Smothers)
18. America's Civil War (JIM COOKE)
19. Re: Guild Press tech support (Linda J Guy)
20. RE: Buford at Fairfield (Tom Ryan)
21. Re: More Names (NPeters102 at aol.com)
22. RE: Guild Press tech support (Tom Ryan)
23. Re: More Names (Cassy Gray)
24. RE: Guild Press tech support
(Robert K Coffman Jr. -Info From Data Corp.)
25. RE: Guild Press tech support (Tom Ryan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 20:29:16 +0000
From: elcarto at comcast.net
Subject: GDG- Reynolds as Wing Commander
To: gettysburg at arthes.com (Gettysburg Discussion Grp)
Message-ID:
<050720082029.25647.4822111C0003E8200000642F2216538496019B9D0E0C040A at comcast
.net>
<< If Reynolds was a wing commander, and Slocum the center commander, who
was the other wing commander? Was anyone besides Reynolds actually assigned
by Meade to command? Did he assign the jobs with himself as overall, or did
he command a portion himself? >>
>>Just because Meade put Reynolds in command of the Left Wing, didn't mean
that he set up other wing commands at the same time. It just meant that he
thought that situation was such that this part of the army could benefit
from a designated commander in closer touch with the three corps in
that sector of the army's advance.
My understanding was that Reynolds was essentially commanding the 'Advanced
Wing' of the AOP as Hooker envisioned things, a position that Meade was
only too happy to continue him in when he took command (My personal 'fly on
the tent wall' moment would be the one on one discussion that Reynolds and
Meade had over the maps when JFR came in to personally congratulate his old
friend and fellow commander of the PA Reserve Division - a lot that happened
over the next three days suggests that they both worked out some rough
plans, and both seemed to be on the same page on a lot of things that don't
get documented.)
We might wonder what might have happened had Reynolds been ORDERED to take
command as Meade was, and had Buford been in Pleasonton's place (their
difference in seniority was only a matter of days, IIRC) On the other hand,
who better to have in charge of the Cavalry Division and Army Wing most
likely to be 'in harm's way'?
As for the other two 'wings' I think that stems from the Pipe Creek Circular
- which Reynolds may not have actually got the chance to read - It
envisioned Slocum and Sedgwick commanding the center and right,
respectively, HAD the Circular been implemented and the Army drawn up in
that position. Slocum seems to have taken it to heart (like Burnside did at
Antietam), pretty much letting Williams run the XII Corps while he
concentrated on his non-existent Wing. Meade was certainly surprised to see
Williams show up at that Famous staff meeting on the night of July 2nd, when
only the Corps Commanders were invited...
Rick Barber
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:11:46 -0400
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Buford at Fairfield
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCECENIDKAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<<Tom- Suggest you will find page 205 of General A.P. Hill from James
Robertson Jr. interesting.
Hill was with Heth when Pettigrew made his report in the afternoon of 30
June. Hill quote:
"The only force at Gettysburg is cavalry, probably a detachment of
observation. I am just from General Lee, and the information he has from
his scouts coorborates what I have received from mine-- that is the enmey is
still at Middleburg amd have not yet struct their tents">>
Bill,
After taking another look at Hill's statement and Heth's reporting these
comments in an SHSP article, it raises the question of what Lee's plan was
at that stage, if he indeed had a plan.
It appears that he no intention of occupying Gettysburg before learning that
Pettigrew ran into an unidentified force there on June 30. He also did not
redirect Ewell's march on the morning of July 1 from Heidlersburg to
Gettysburg instead of Cashtown until Heth was engaged with Buford on the
outskirts of Gettysburg.
So I guess the question is where did Lee intend to fight once he learned
that the AoP had crossed the Potomac and his scouts informed them part of
the Union army was as close by as Middleburg.
Some of his aides said after the war that Lee intended to fight at
Gettysburg all along, and Ewell's mapmaker, Jed Hotchkiss, noted in his
diary that Lee had told Ewell in late June that he thought the battle would
take place in Frederick or Gettysburg.
However, the evidence points to Lee having no plans to occupy Gettysburg.
Instead it looks like he was going to make a stand at Cashtown until he was
drawn into a battle at Gettysburg.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Regards, Tom
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 17:51:56 -0400
From: Linda J Guy <lindajguy at embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: GDG- Hallowed Ground
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <4822247C.20702 at embarqmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
My point is - it takes in the Gettysburg area. Did you look at the map
link of all this is going to cover?
Linda
Robert Lawrence wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Not without controversy
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-174008676.html
>
> <<-----Original Message-----
> <<From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
> <<[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com] On Behalf Of Linda J Guy
> <<Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:38 AM
> <<To: Gettysburg List
> <<Subject: GDG- Hallowed Ground
> <<
> <<Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> <<
> <<
> <<Hello all,
> <<
> <<I thought you would find this interesting.
> <<
> <<http://www.hallowedground.org/content/view/396/57
> <<
> <<Linda
> <<
> <<----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:58:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: JIM COOKE <cooke1863 at embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: GDG- Hallowed Ground
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID:
<42935098.6168051210197481452.JavaMail.root at md15.embarq.synacor.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The northern border approximates the boundaries of Adams County.
JC
----- Original Message -----
From: Linda J Guy <lindajguy at embarqmail.com>
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:51:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: GDG- Hallowed Ground
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
My point is - it takes in the Gettysburg area. Did you look at the map
link of all this is going to cover?
Linda
Robert Lawrence wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Not without controversy
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-174008676.html
>
> <<-----Original Message-----
> <<From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
> <<[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com] On Behalf Of Linda J Guy
> <<Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:38 AM
> <<To: Gettysburg List
> <<Subject: GDG- Hallowed Ground
> <<
> <<Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> <<
> <<
> <<Hello all,
> <<
> <<I thought you would find this interesting.
> <<
> <<http://www.hallowedground.org/content/view/396/57
> <<
> <<Linda
> <<
> <<----------------------------------------------------------------
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> <<http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> <<
> <<You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> <<http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> <<
> <<View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> <<http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> <<
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:37:55 -0400
From: William Nolan <wjn100 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W4261B113451EDF50E868808DD10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mudwall Jackson! Now that's an interesting nickname name. I have to
suspect that it was not necessarily a complimentary nickname.
Bill
> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 05:55:14 -0700> From: carton2531 at yahoo.com> Subject:
Re: GDG- More Names> To: gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:> >
> Off the top of my head, here are few more names. Of course, there is the
great Stonewall Jackson, but in Western Virginia, General William Jackson
was known as Mudwall Jackson. >
> And then there are the usual suspects, not yet mention. A.P. Hill was
Little Powell. Jubal Early was Ole Jube or Jubilee. William Mahone was known
as Little Billy. Winfield Scott Hancock's nickname was Superb. These are
probably all well known, but I thought I would add them to the discussion.>
> Cassy Gray
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 16:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard M Kadas <rkadas at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <340899.76482.qm at web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Bill,
Seems like you've got another good one. At least I'd heard of Stonewall's
cousin, William Lowther, but I'd occasionally wondered if Lowther wasn't
West Virginian for Luther. To avoid any further politically incorrect
elitist urges to mock West Virginians and for all other too embarrassed to
expose their ignorance; could you please tell us how this other General
Jackson earned his nickname?
Dick
William Nolan <wjn100 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Mudwall Jackson! Now that's an interesting nickname name. I have to suspect
that it was not necessarily a complimentary nickname.
Bill
> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 05:55:14 -0700> From: carton2531 at yahoo.com> Subject:
Re: GDG- More Names> To: gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:> >
> Off the top of my head, here are few more names. Of course, there is the
great Stonewall Jackson, but in Western Virginia, General William Jackson
was known as Mudwall Jackson. >
> And then there are the usual suspects, not yet mention. A.P. Hill was
Little Powell. Jubal Early was Ole Jube or Jubilee. William Mahone was known
as Little Billy. Winfield Scott Hancock's nickname was Superb. These are
probably all well known, but I thought I would add them to the discussion.>
> Cassy Gray
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:36:58 -0400
From: "J. David Petruzzi" <jaydee at pennswoods.net>
Subject: RE: GDG- RE: Gettysburg Digest, Vol 48, Issue 12
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <MBBBKFKFNFBKFILFJJGMAENEFIAA.jaydee at pennswoods.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Gary,
Yep - same incident. Many of Buford's 17th PA Cavalry members in Devin's
brigade lived in nearby Waynesboro, and visited their families that night.
Everyone was back the next morning by about 4am, and not a single trooper
missed roll call.
J.D.
J. David Petruzzi
My blog: http://petruzzi.wordpress.com
My book: http://www.stuartsride.com
>>Hi Tom,
I thought that the Cav (I don't know exactly which unit) ran into the
Confederate advance somewhere in the vicintiny of Emmitsbrug and both sides
backed off to avoid an engagment. This would be the night befoer Buford
occupies Gettysburg.
It may be the same incidnet that you and JD are talking about. I'm just not
sure. I recall that some members of the unit lived near by and were given a
night pass to catch up on things at home, but had to be back first thing in
the morning.
I don't know if that helps any but hey, I tried.
Gary McGinnis>>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:45:02 -0400
From: William Nolan <wjn100 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W6011E9A5156CE12B3947128DD10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dick,
As to "Mudwall" Jackson and how he got that moniker, I will have to defer to
our esteemed Cassy Gray. Cassy is the one that dug up that gem!
Regards,
Bill
> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 16:32:24 -0700> From: rkadas at sbcglobal.net> Subject:
RE: GDG- More Names> To: gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:> > > Bill,
> Seems like you've got another good one. At least I'd heard of Stonewall's
cousin, William Lowther, but I'd occasionally
wondered if Lowther wasn't West Virginian for Luther. To avoid any further
politically incorrect elitist urges to mock West
Virginians and for all other too embarrassed to expose their ignorance;
could you please tell us how this other General
Jackson earned his nickname?
> Dick
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:23:39 +1000 (EST)
From: "Kerry Webb" <kwebb at alianet.alia.org.au>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID:
<10415.136.153.2.2.1210202619.squirrel at webmail.alia.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
On Thu 8 May 2008 9:32 am, Richard M Kadas wrote:
>
> Bill,
> Seems like you've got another good one. At least I'd heard of
> Stonewall's cousin, William Lowther, but I'd occasionally wondered if
> Lowther wasn't West Virginian for Luther. To avoid any further
> politically incorrect elitist urges to mock West Virginians and for all
> other too embarrassed to expose their ignorance; could you please tell
> us how this other General Jackson earned his nickname?
> Dick
>
It's all a little confusing. There were apparently at least two
Confederate generals with a claim to the name.
See http://www.bluegraymagazine.com/Files/mudwall%20jackson.pdf
Kerry
--
Kerry Webb
Canberra, Australia
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 20:01:30 EDT
From: NPeters102 at aol.com
Subject: Re: GDG- More Names
To: gettysburg at arthes.com
Message-ID: <ce4.3085f865.35539cda at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 5/7/2008 7:33:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rkadas at sbcglobal.net writes:
could you please tell us how this other General Jackson earned his
nickname?
Dick,
Re: "Mudwall," Scott Patchan wrote, in his wonderful "Shenandoah Summer:
The 1864 Valley Campaign," that the "nickname was derived in
contradistinction
to his more famous cousin."
Respectfully,
Mike Peters
npeters102 at aol.com
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
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(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:47:01 -0400
From: "Chuck May" <chuckmay at may-engineering.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names
To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <00a401c8b0ad$68f44990$3adcdcb0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Don't forget "Beauty" Stuart.
Chuck May
Gettysburg PA
-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
On Behalf Of Cassy Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:55 AM
To: GDG
Subject: Re: GDG- More Names
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Off the top of my head, here are few more names. Of course, there is the
great Stonewall Jackson, but in Western Virginia, General William Jackson
was known as Mudwall Jackson.
And then there are the usual suspects, not yet mention. A.P. Hill was
Little Powell. Jubal Early was Ole Jube or Jubilee. William Mahone was
known as Little Billy. Winfield Scott Hancock's nickname was Superb. These
are probably all well known, but I thought I would add them to the
discussion.
Cassy Gray
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 01:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cassy Gray <carton2531 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <975333.75935.qm at web37606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I believe that it wasn't a derisive term, but indicative of rank. William
Jackson was a colonel in the 22nd Virginia Infantry. He was promoted to
Brigadier General during the last year of the war. Hence he was a mere mud
wall and not a stone wall. Plus the term mud would also be an apt
description of the region in which the 22nd Virginia was posted.
I have contacted the members of the 22nd Virginia Infantry reinactors to
get further clarification and will share their answer once it arrives.
Cassy Gray
For conversations about the Army of Northern Virginia, please visit my
blog at www.headquartersanv.blogspot.com
William Nolan <wjn100 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Dick,
As to "Mudwall" Jackson and how he got that moniker, I will have to defer to
our esteemed Cassy Gray. Cassy is the one that dug up that gem!
Regards,
Bill
> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 16:32:24 -0700> From: rkadas at sbcglobal.net> Subject:
RE: GDG- More Names> To: gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:> > > Bill,
> Seems like you've got another good one. At least I'd heard of Stonewall's
cousin, William Lowther, but I'd occasionally
wondered if Lowther wasn't West Virginian for Luther. To avoid any further
politically incorrect elitist urges to mock West
Virginians and for all other too embarrassed to expose their ignorance;
could you please tell us how this other General
Jackson earned his nickname?
> Dick
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:59:48 -0400
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Subject: GDG- Guild Press tech support
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at gdg.org>
Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEIENKDKAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In using the Guild Press version of the Southern Historical Society Papers,
I am having a problem copying text so that I can paste it to another
document. When I highlight the section I want to copy and right click, the
normal right click menu including "copy" does not appear. Instead a message
about bookmarking comes up.
The Help file does not provide copying instructions.
What am I doing wrong?
Tom Ryan
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:29:49 -0400
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Buford at Fairfield
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEGENLDKAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To follow up on the my post about the scouts reporting the AoP being at
Middleburg. This came from an article by Harry Heth in SHSP in 1877. Heth
goes on to say that when he sent two brigades forward to occupy Gettysburg
on the morning of July 1, they ran into Reynolds corps. He makes no
reference to Buford's cavalry at all. Like they were not even there.
Heth also says that this was the first that Lee knew that the enemy had
moved from the point he supposed them to occupy (i.e., Middleburg) some 30
miles distant. Since Middleburg is only 15 miles from Gettysburg, that is
an significant miscalculation.
Either Heth's memory is hazy after 14 years, or he is rearranging the story
for some reason.
Tom Ryan
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:53:38 -0400
From: "Mike Nugent" <mnugent at maine.rr.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Buford at Fairfield
To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <20080508125309.ZGCY12898.hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com at Mike>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Tom Ryan
Subject: RE: GDG- Buford at Fairfield
"... (Heth) makes no reference to Buford's cavalry at all. Like they were
not even there...
Either Heth's memory is hazy after 14 years, or he is rearranging the story
for some reason."
Tom Ryan
Tom,
For years after the war, Heth insisted that the force he faced on the
morning of July 1st consisted of Infantry, not Cavalry. I believe there are
two reasons for this:
I think Heth was too stubborn to admit that he erred in dismissing
Pettigrew's report of Regular Army Cavalry in Gettysburg on June 30th.
Admitting that he fought Cavalry on July 1st would require admitting he was
wrong and that the self-taught Pettigrew was right.
Secondly, and most importantly, I think Heth's claims illustrate the job
that Buford's two brigades did fighting the July 1st covering force action.
One of the goals of Cavalry in a defensive posture is to deceive the enemy
as to the makeup of your force (fighting dismounted, horses well out of view
to the rear, etc.) If the Confederates had known the true composition of
the force in front of them, they could have bulled their way right through
Buford's screen. Believing they faced Infantry however, forced them into a
by-the-book deployment and slowed them down considerably.
Regards,
Mike Nugent
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 05:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cassy Gray <carton2531 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names (Mudwall Jackson)
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <117655.66037.qm at web37605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have received an answer from the 22nd Virginia. It seems the term was
derisive (which differs from the reason in the narrative where I originally
encountered Mudwall).
Here is the "official" explanation: Mudwall was a Union name given to
Colonel William Jackson in August of 1863, because the Union Army in West
Virginia felt that he could not stand and fight or become as distinguished
as a military officer like his 2nd cousin General Thomas Jackson.
Poor Mudwall.
Cassy Gray
For conversations about the Army of Northern Virginia, please visit my
blog at www.headquartersanv.blogspot.com
William Nolan <wjn100 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Dick,
As to "Mudwall" Jackson and how he got that moniker, I will have to defer to
our esteemed Cassy Gray. Cassy is the one that dug up that gem!
Regards,
Bill
> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 16:32:24 -0700> From: rkadas at sbcglobal.net> Subject:
RE: GDG- More Names> To: gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:> > > Bill,
> Seems like you've got another good one. At least I'd heard of Stonewall's
cousin, William Lowther, but I'd occasionally
wondered if Lowther wasn't West Virginian for Luther. To avoid any further
politically incorrect elitist urges to mock West
Virginians and for all other too embarrassed to expose their ignorance;
could you please tell us how this other General
Jackson earned his nickname?
> Dick
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:07:21 -0400
From: Edward F Smothers <EFSmothers at uss.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- More Names (Mudwall Jackson)
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID:
<OFAA3D5BB9.35AD0FA9-ON85257443.00478378-85257443.004815B7 at notes.uss.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Woe be the person who is compared to "what would Jackson do" and never
quite measure up to the expectations. Just ask Ewell.
Ed Smothers
Cassy Gray <carton2531 at yahoo.com>
Sent by: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
05/08/2008 08:57 AM
Please respond to
GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
To
GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
cc
Subject
RE: GDG- More Names (Mudwall Jackson)
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
I have received an answer from the 22nd Virginia. It seems the term was
derisive (which differs from the reason in the narrative where I
originally encountered Mudwall).
Here is the "official" explanation: Mudwall was a Union name given to
Colonel William Jackson in August of 1863, because the Union Army in West
Virginia felt that he could not stand and fight or become as distinguished
as a military officer like his 2nd cousin General Thomas Jackson.
Poor Mudwall.
Cassy Gray
For conversations about the Army of Northern Virginia, please visit my
blog at www.headquartersanv.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:14:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: JIM COOKE <cooke1863 at embarqmail.com>
Subject: GDG- America's Civil War
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID:
<1933583414.6267841210252454893.JavaMail.root at md15.embarq.synacor.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The current (July) issue of America's Civil War magazine has some
Gettysburg-related articles, including two by an esteemed member concerning
Buford's activities during the battle and the campaign, and an analysis
using some of Steven Stanley's maps. Good job, gentlemen. There's also an
interesting article about civilian hero John Burns.
JC
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 09:38:35 -0400
From: Linda J Guy <lindajguy at embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: GDG- Guild Press tech support
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <4823025B.7050602 at embarqmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Tom,
Have you tried pressing "ctrl-s" to copy after highlighting, and then
"ctrl-v" to paste? Sometimes that will work when nothing else does.
Linda
Tom Ryan wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> In using the Guild Press version of the Southern Historical Society
Papers,
> I am having a problem copying text so that I can paste it to another
> document. When I highlight the section I want to copy and right click,
the
> normal right click menu including "copy" does not appear. Instead a
message
> about bookmarking comes up.
>
> The Help file does not provide copying instructions.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Tom Ryan
>
>
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>
> You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
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>
> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
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>
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:53:50 -0400
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Buford at Fairfield
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEKENMDKAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mike,
Those are good points. It seems that Heth had gotten himself into a box
concerning what happened that day. I recall that Heth had argued that the
force he made contact with at Gettysburg consisted of cavalry, infantry and
artillery. In this article he obviously ignored the cavalry part.
By the way, do you have any thoughts about why Lee and Hill's scouts, that
were searching for the Union army's location, missed running into Buford's
two brigades that were moving toward Fairfield on June 29 and 30, or why
they at least did not learn from local citiizens that Buford was marching
through the area? It seems it would have been difficult for their paths not
to have crossed, since the scouts would have been moving southeast from
Chambersburg toward Frederick, and had to return along the same route.
Regards, Tom Ryan
<<For years after the war, Heth insisted that the force he faced on the
morning of July 1st consisted of Infantry, not Cavalry. I believe there are
two reasons for this:
I think Heth was too stubborn to admit that he erred in dismissing
Pettigrew's report of Regular Army Cavalry in Gettysburg on June 30th.
Admitting that he fought Cavalry on July 1st would require admitting he was
wrong and that the self-taught Pettigrew was right.
Secondly, and most importantly, I think Heth's claims illustrate the job
that Buford's two brigades did fighting the July 1st covering force action.
One of the goals of Cavalry in a defensive posture is to deceive the enemy
as to the makeup of your force (fighting dismounted, horses well out of view
to the rear, etc.) If the Confederates had known the true composition of
the force in front of them, they could have bulled their way right through
Buford's screen. Believing they faced Infantry however, forced them into a
by-the-book deployment and slowed them down considerably.>>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:59:06 EDT
From: NPeters102 at aol.com
Subject: Re: GDG- More Names
To: gettysburg at arthes.com
Message-ID: <d2c.29b6bb3f.3554612a at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 5/8/2008 4:53:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
carton2531 at yahoo.com writes:
I believe that it wasn't a derisive term, but indicative of rank. William
Jackson was a colonel in the 22nd Virginia Infantry. He was promoted to
Brigadier General during the last year of the war. Hence he was a mere mud
wall
and not a stone wall. Plus the term mud would also be an apt description of
the
region in which the 22nd Virginia was posted.
Cassy,
I believe you are referring to the wrong William Jackson. William Lowther
Johnson, AKA "Mudwall," was never a member of Patton's 22nd VA Infantry.
The
William Jackson of the 22nd VA Infantry was William A.
Respectfully,
Mike Peters
npeters102 at aol.com
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:02:17 -0400
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Guild Press tech support
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEGENNDKAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Linda,
When I hit ctrl-s, the "Save as" box comes up. When I click that off, and
try to paste the highligted portion to another document it does not work.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of Linda J Guy
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:39 AM
To: GDG
Subject: Re: GDG- Guild Press tech support
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Tom,
Have you tried pressing "ctrl-s" to copy after highlighting, and then
"ctrl-v" to paste? Sometimes that will work when nothing else does.
Linda
Tom Ryan wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> In using the Guild Press version of the Southern Historical Society
Papers,
> I am having a problem copying text so that I can paste it to another
> document. When I highlight the section I want to copy and right click,
the
> normal right click menu including "copy" does not appear. Instead a
message
> about bookmarking comes up.
>
> The Help file does not provide copying instructions.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Tom Ryan
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
---------
> You may unsubscribe by going to
http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
>
> You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
>
> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cassy Gray <carton2531 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GDG- More Names
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <975250.82931.qm at web37607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You are correct. I did an internet search on the Colonel and was led to the
22nd Virginia's website. Colonel Jackson should be associated with the 19th
and 20th Virginia Cavalry.
Sorry about that.
Cassy Gray
For conversations about the Army of Northern Virginia, please visit my
blog at www.headquartersanv.blogspot.com
NPeters102 at aol.com wrote:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
In a message dated 5/8/2008 4:53:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
carton2531 at yahoo.com writes:
I believe that it wasn't a derisive term, but indicative of rank. William
Jackson was a colonel in the 22nd Virginia Infantry. He was promoted to
Brigadier General during the last year of the war. Hence he was a mere mud
wall
and not a stone wall. Plus the term mud would also be an apt description of
the
region in which the 22nd Virginia was posted.
Cassy,
I believe you are referring to the wrong William Jackson. William Lowther
Johnson, AKA "Mudwall," was never a member of Patton's 22nd VA Infantry. The
William Jackson of the 22nd VA Infantry was William A.
Respectfully,
Mike Peters
npeters102 at aol.com
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
----------------------------------------------------------------
You may unsubscribe by going to
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You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
For conversations about the Army of Northern Virginia, please visit my blog
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---------------------------------
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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:01:04 -0400
From: "Robert K Coffman Jr. -Info From Data Corp."
<bcoffman at infofromdata.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Guild Press tech support
To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c8b11c$568fe290$3602a8c0 at ad.infofromdata.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>When I hit ctrl-s, the "Save as" box comes up.
I haven't heard of CTRL+S as a copy shortcut.
Try CTRL+C or CTRL+Insert.
Then CTRL+V or SHIFT+Insert to paste.
- Bob Coffman
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:15:51 -0400
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Subject: RE: GDG- Guild Press tech support
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEAENPDKAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bingo. CTRL+C and CTRL+V did it.
Thanks, Bob and thank you Linda as well.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of Robert K Coffman Jr.
-Info From Data Corp.
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:01 AM
To: 'GDG'
Subject: RE: GDG- Guild Press tech support
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>When I hit ctrl-s, the "Save as" box comes up.
I haven't heard of CTRL+S as a copy shortcut.
Try CTRL+C or CTRL+Insert.
Then CTRL+V or SHIFT+Insert to paste.
- Bob Coffman
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