GDG- RE: Pipe Creek

[jack]

Hello Margaret.

Without dimininshing thestate of Pennsylvania in any way,
the capture of Harrisburg doesn't strile me as any more significant to a 
European nation than say, Cahmbersburg. As for domestic politics, Lincoln 
was not going to be swayed.


Regards,

Jack



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Margaret D. Blough" <mdblough1 at comcast.net>
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:16 AM
Subject: RE: GDG- RE: Pipe Creek


> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Andy,
>
> I didn't say that the two campaigns were the same, what I said was that 
> they both had psychological impact on popular support for the enemy 
> government as a primary objective rather than seizing and investing fixed 
> positions. Also, the Army of Tennessee was not an absent force for the 
> march through Georgia, as the Union soldiers who fought at Kennesaw 
> Mountain and Resaca would attest. Hood's decisions after taking command 
> were hardly to be expected at the outset of the campaign.  In addition, I 
> specifically said that the impact of the ANV taking Harrisburg did not 
> require the ANV to hold it for very long.  As for close pursuit by the AOP 
> complicating matters, that is what actually happened, not what Lee 
> expected to happen.  If Lee had expected that to happen, he wouldn't have 
> scattered the Second Corps from York to the outskirts of Harrisburg.  He 
> was clearly surprised when he received the report that the AOP was, in 
> fact, north of the Mason-Dixon Line in force.  Ewell was about to
> make his move on Harrisburg when he received Lee's orders to concentrate 
> the ANV in the face of this new peril.
>
> Regards,
>
> Margaret
>
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "The Mills" <kkamills at embarqmail.com>
>
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>
>>
>> Margaret:
>>
>> Sherman's campaign of 1864 and the capture of Atlanta and the Gettysburg 
>> /
>> Lee campaign of 1863 are not really the same, even if the capture of
>> Harrisburg would have happened. The Confederates could not capture and 
>> hold
>> Harrisburg and at best, could hold it for an extremely short time. Had 
>> they
>> even tried to hold it, probably would have lost their army because they
>> couldn't sustain an occupational force long enough for it to make much of 
>> a
>> difference before the AOP arrived.
>>
>> The AOP was on the heels of the ANV and the ANV was not able to do as
>> Sherman did on his march through Georgia, so the two events are not 
>> really
>> as similar as you would try to make them out to be. Sherman had no 
>> opposing
>> army, had free reign to do as he choose. The ANV had the AOP on its heals
>> and at most, might have been able to try to occupy Harrisburg for a day 
>> or
>> two before the AOP arrived. Hardly the same as the Sherman campaign in
>> 1864.
>>
>> Had the ANV done battle so far north, the would have to fight their way 
>> back
>> regardless of victory or defeat, barring total annilation of the AOP and 
>> we
>> all know that isn't going to happen on the field. Best case is the ANV
>> achieves victory, but still has to fight its way home as happened at
>> Gettysburg, but has a lot further to go.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Andy
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com 
>> [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Margaret D. Blough
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:25 PM
>> To: GDG
>> Subject: RE: GDG- RE: Pipe Creek
>>
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> The Susquehanna River is the eastern boundary of Cumberland County (aka 
>> "The
>> West Shore" around here). If you keep going east a few more miles in
>> Cumberland County from Camp Hill, which is the farthest that Ewell's 
>> command
>> is documented as going in at the end of June 1863, you will reach the
>> Susquehanna River bridge (now bridges) crossing to Harrisburg (aka "The 
>> East
>> Shore" around here). Hotchkiss's account is additional confirmation that
>> Harrisburg was Lee's primary target in his 1863 Pennsylvania campaign.
>> Harrisburg was a major railroad junction and the most secure rail line
>> immediately north of the embattled B & O line. Furthermore, it was the
>> capital not only of a loyal state of great importance in the 1864
>> presidential campaign but also one headed by one of the leading 
>> pro-Lincoln
>> war governors, Andrew Gregg Curtin, and it was almost defenseless. The 
>> ANV
>> wouldn't have had to hold Harrisburg very long, simply taking it would 
>> have
>> enormous political and psychological signi
>> ficance on Union morale and even internationally. If successful, it would
>> have sent the message to the states loyal to the Union that Sherman's 
>> 1864
>> campaign in Georgia sent to the people of the rebel states in the Deep
>> South-your government is incapable of performing one of the most 
>> fundamental
>> acts of a functioning government-protecting its citizens.
>> Regards,
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>> -------------- Original message -------------- 
>> From: "Tom Ryan"
>>
>> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> >
>> >
>> > <> so
>> > earlier>>
>> >
>> > The Hotchkiss diary entry was dated February 23, 1863, right around the
>> time
>> > that Lee began seriously thinking about invading the North. The 
>> > complete
>> > entry on this subject reads as follows:
>> >
>> > "I got secret orders from the General [Jackson] to prepare a map of the
>> > Valley of Va. extended to Harrisburg, Pa., and then on to
>> > Philadelphia;--wishing the preparation to be kept a profound secret. So 
>> > I
>> > went to reducing a map of Cumberland Co., Pa."
>> >
>> > Hotchkiss started work on the map the next day, and worked on it for a
>> > couple weeks, then on March 4 made this entry:
>> >
>> > "As I had nearly finished the map of Cumberland Co. I wanted some more 
>> > to
>> > add to it, I therefore went up to Gen. Lee's to obtain others, or 
>> > rather
>> to
>> > Gen. Stuart's, Capt. Blackford having them."
>> >
>> > Hotchkiss says he finished the "map of Cumberland Co., Pa." on March 
>> > 10.
>> > Cumberland County is north of Adams Co. and runs from about 
>> > Shippensburg
>> > east to the Susquehanna River. This, of course, was just one part of 
>> > the
>> > overall map that Jackson requested.
>> >
>> > What these passages suggest, I believe, is that Jackson had been
>> encouraging
>> > Lee for some time to invade the North, and do as much damage as 
>> > possible
>> to
>> > its capability to conduct warfare. Lee had been hesitant about the idea
>> > earlier, but now decided it was time to take the war into Northern
>> > territory. Hooker's aggressiveness that led to the Battle of
>> > Chancellorsvile delayed these plans until early June when the the 
>> > invasion
>>
>> > took place.
>> >
>> > Tom Ryan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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