GDG- RE: Pipe Creek

Thu Mar 6 05:16:10 CST 2008

Andy,

I didn't say that the two campaigns were the same, what I said was that they both had psychological impact on popular support for the enemy government as a primary objective rather than seizing and investing fixed positions. Also, the Army of Tennessee was not an absent force for the march through Georgia, as the Union soldiers who fought at Kennesaw Mountain and Resaca would attest. Hood's decisions after taking command were hardly to be expected at the outset of the campaign.  In addition, I specifically said that the impact of the ANV taking Harrisburg did not require the ANV to hold it for very long.  As for close pursuit by the AOP complicating matters, that is what actually happened, not what Lee expected to happen.  If Lee had expected that to happen, he wouldn't have scattered the Second Corps from York to the outskirts of Harrisburg.  He was clearly surprised when he received the report that the AOP was, in fact, north of the Mason-Dixon Line in force.  Ewell was about to 
make his move on Harrisburg when he received Lee's orders to concentrate the ANV in the face of this new peril.

Regards,

Margaret

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "The Mills" <kkamills at embarqmail.com> 

> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes: 
> 
> 
> Margaret: 
> 
> Sherman's campaign of 1864 and the capture of Atlanta and the Gettysburg / 
> Lee campaign of 1863 are not really the same, even if the capture of 
> Harrisburg would have happened. The Confederates could not capture and hold 
> Harrisburg and at best, could hold it for an extremely short time. Had they 
> even tried to hold it, probably would have lost their army because they 
> couldn't sustain an occupational force long enough for it to make much of a 
> difference before the AOP arrived. 
> 
> The AOP was on the heels of the ANV and the ANV was not able to do as 
> Sherman did on his march through Georgia, so the two events are not really 
> as similar as you would try to make them out to be. Sherman had no opposing 
> army, had free reign to do as he choose. The ANV had the AOP on its heals 
> and at most, might have been able to try to occupy Harrisburg for a day or 
> two before the AOP arrived. Hardly the same as the Sherman campaign in 
> 1864. 
> 
> Had the ANV done battle so far north, the would have to fight their way back 
> regardless of victory or defeat, barring total annilation of the AOP and we 
> all know that isn't going to happen on the field. Best case is the ANV 
> achieves victory, but still has to fight its way home as happened at 
> Gettysburg, but has a lot further to go. 
> 
> Thanks 
> Andy 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Margaret D. Blough 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:25 PM 
> To: GDG 
> Subject: RE: GDG- RE: Pipe Creek 
> 
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes: 
> 
> 
> Tom, 
> 
> The Susquehanna River is the eastern boundary of Cumberland County (aka "The 
> West Shore" around here). If you keep going east a few more miles in 
> Cumberland County from Camp Hill, which is the farthest that Ewell's command 
> is documented as going in at the end of June 1863, you will reach the 
> Susquehanna River bridge (now bridges) crossing to Harrisburg (aka "The East 
> Shore" around here). Hotchkiss's account is additional confirmation that 
> Harrisburg was Lee's primary target in his 1863 Pennsylvania campaign. 
> Harrisburg was a major railroad junction and the most secure rail line 
> immediately north of the embattled B & O line. Furthermore, it was the 
> capital not only of a loyal state of great importance in the 1864 
> presidential campaign but also one headed by one of the leading pro-Lincoln 
> war governors, Andrew Gregg Curtin, and it was almost defenseless. The ANV 
> wouldn't have had to hold Harrisburg very long, simply taking it would have 
> enormous political and psychological signi 
> ficance on Union morale and even internationally. If successful, it would 
> have sent the message to the states loyal to the Union that Sherman's 1864 
> campaign in Georgia sent to the people of the rebel states in the Deep 
> South-your government is incapable of performing one of the most fundamental 
> acts of a functioning government-protecting its citizens. 
> Regards, 
> 
> Margaret 
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "Tom Ryan" 
> 
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes: 
> > 
> > 
> > <> so 
> > earlier>> 
> > 
> > The Hotchkiss diary entry was dated February 23, 1863, right around the 
> time 
> > that Lee began seriously thinking about invading the North. The complete 
> > entry on this subject reads as follows: 
> > 
> > "I got secret orders from the General [Jackson] to prepare a map of the 
> > Valley of Va. extended to Harrisburg, Pa., and then on to 
> > Philadelphia;--wishing the preparation to be kept a profound secret. So I 
> > went to reducing a map of Cumberland Co., Pa." 
> > 
> > Hotchkiss started work on the map the next day, and worked on it for a 
> > couple weeks, then on March 4 made this entry: 
> > 
> > "As I had nearly finished the map of Cumberland Co. I wanted some more to 
> > add to it, I therefore went up to Gen. Lee's to obtain others, or rather 
> to 
> > Gen. Stuart's, Capt. Blackford having them." 
> > 
> > Hotchkiss says he finished the "map of Cumberland Co., Pa." on March 10. 
> > Cumberland County is north of Adams Co. and runs from about Shippensburg 
> > east to the Susquehanna River. This, of course, was just one part of the 
> > overall map that Jackson requested. 
> > 
> > What these passages suggest, I believe, is that Jackson had been 
> encouraging 
> > Lee for some time to invade the North, and do as much damage as possible 
> to 
> > its capability to conduct warfare. Lee had been hesitant about the idea 
> > earlier, but now decided it was time to take the war into Northern 
> > territory. Hooker's aggressiveness that led to the Battle of 
> > Chancellorsvile delayed these plans until early June when the the invasion 
> 
> > took place. 
> > 
> > Tom Ryan 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > You may unsubscribe by going to 
> > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg 
> > 
> > You can add yourself to the GDG map at: 
> > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup 
> > 
> > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at 
> > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/ 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> You may unsubscribe by going to 
> http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg 
> 
> You can add yourself to the GDG map at: 
> http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup 
> 
> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at 
> http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/ 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> You may unsubscribe by going to 
> http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg 
> 
> You can add yourself to the GDG map at: 
> http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup 
> 
> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at 
> http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/ 