GDG- Final say on Shelby
jlawrence at kc.rr.com
jlawrence at kc.rr.com
Mon Jan 28 10:59:45 CST 2008
I know many people who became interested in the Civil War because of Shelby Foote. I don't know anyone who became interested after reading Coddington.
Foote provides a bridge for those wishing to cross from conventional wisdom to history.
'Nuf' said. Three cheers for Shelby Foote.
---- Mike Rinehart <MRinehart at mail.rossford.k12.oh.us> wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> This is the one of the reasons that a listserv is so fun. I love the
> debate and conversation. I started this "thread" last week and it has
> become a lot of fun. Granted I do not wish this message to quell
> anybody from stating their case or throwing their opinion out there but
> I will just add my last two cents into the pot.
>
> After 20+ years of Civil War reading I don't know what brought into
> reading Foote's books. Currently I am about 50% finished with Volume
> One and I know I have a long way to go. I grew a bit tired of the run
> of the line Civil War book and Shelby's books provide a relief from
> that. I consider myself an armchair Civil War historian but I hold a
> Bachelors Degree in History and another Bachelors in Social Studies. I
> am no expert but I a basic history appealed to me. Plus I don't think
> that anybody can study the Civil War without being slightly aware of
> these three books. I don't know if they are "required" reading by a
> Civil War fan but they have been a lot of fun.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-request at arthes.com
> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:58:02 -0600 (CST)
> Subject: Gettysburg Digest, Vol 44, Issue 31
>
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Foote (John Baniszewski)
> > 2. Muster (Christ Liebegott)
> > 3. Re: Foote (Chet Diestel)
> > 4. Re: Consider the source (DShultz180 at aol.com)
> > 5. Re: Re:Shelby Foote took perfectly legal advantage (Chet Diestel)
> > 6. RE: Re:Shelby Foote took perfectly legal advantage (Tom Ryan)
> > 7. Re: Muster (manassas1 at comcast.net)
> > 8. Re: Foote (NPeters102 at aol.com)
> > 9. Sixth Corps Distance (Rgrandchamp40 at aol.com)
> > 10. RE: Shelby Foote's sources (Margaret D. Blough)
> > 11. Re: Shelby Foote's sources (Carl Chatto)
> > 12. Re: Sixth Corps Distance (Chet Diestel)
> > 13. RE: Sixth Corps Distance (Tom Ryan)
> > 14. Re: Foote (huddleston.r at comcast.net)
> > 15. Re: Foote (huddleston.r at comcast.net)
> > 16. GDG-First Shot (dwmadison at comcast.net)
> > 17. Re: GDG-First Shot (Jeff Burk)
> > 18. Re: GDG-First Shot (dwmadison at comcast.net)
> > 19. Re: GDG-First Shot (dwmadison at comcast.net)
> > 20. RE: GDG-First Shot (J. David Petruzzi)
> > 21. 2nd SOUTH CAROLINA STRING BAND CONCERT_LIVE IN GETTYSBURG ON
> > MARCH 8th 2008 (Jeff Quinton)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:51:40 -0800 (PST)
> > From: John Baniszewski <jdbano2001 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: GDG- Foote
> > To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> > Message-ID: <163990.33926.qm at web32410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> >
> > john: Without appearing to dimwitted, if that's possible,
> > wouldn't the death rate from the war itself skew the
> > averages for that generation?
> >
> > Yes it would, but not by as much as you would think.
> > Although the number of deaths in the Civil War was
> > horrific, statistically they represented app. 2% of
> > the population, so impact on life expectancy of the entire
> > country is watered down.
> >
> > I could not find data for the US, but the following gives
> > life expectancy in Sweden in the 1860's, as well
> > as today. The biggest factor in the longer life expectancy
> > of people today versus 1860 is infant mortality rate.
> >
> >
> > As of age 0 50 65 1861-1870
> > Years to live 43 19
> > 10 Age at death 43 69 75
> > 2006 Years to live
> > 79 30 18 Age at death 79
> > 80 83
> > I once asked someone in the Census Bureau what impact the Civil War had
> > on total US population - would it be much higher today had the war not
> > occurred. She answered not by much, because the number of deaths among
> > women is the most important factor.
> >
> > John Baniszewski
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Baniszewski
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:04:49 -0500
> > From: "Christ Liebegott" <jcl738 at comcast.net>
> > Subject: GDG- Muster
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <004901c8604e$55348500$6600a8c0 at CHRISTCOMPUTER>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Do we have rooms set aside at the Quality Inn yet?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:45:37 -0800
> > From: "Chet Diestel" <chetd1 at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Foote
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <000e01c86054$080761c0$5981bb43 at newone>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Baniszewski" <jdbano2001 at yahoo.com>
> > To: <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:51 AM
> > Subject: GDG- Foote
> >
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member John Baniszewski Contributes in reply to another
> > > member:
> >
> > john: Without appearing to dimwitted, if that's possible, wouldn't
> > the
> > death rate from the war itself skew the averages for that generation?
> >
> > Yes it would, but not by as much as you would think. Although the
> > number
> > of deaths in the Civil War was horrific, statistically they
> > represented
> > app. 2% of the population, so impact on life expectancy of the entire
> > country is watered down.
> >
> > I could not find data for the US, but the following gives life
> > expectancy in Sweden in the 1860's, as well as today. The biggest
> > factor in
> > the longer life expectancy of people today versus 1860 is infant
> > mortality
> > rate.
> >
> > As of age 0 50 65 1861-1870
> > Years
> > to live 43 19 10
> > Age at death 43 69 75 2006
> > Years to live 79 30 18
> > Age at death 79 80 83
> > I once asked someone in the Census Bureau what impact the Civil War
> > had
> > on total US population - would it be much higher today had the war not
> > occurred. She answered not by much, because the number of deaths among
> > women is the most important factor.
> > John Baniszewski
> >
> > Any study of the population growth in the nation must, of course,
> > take in
> > the young men lost to battle or disease during the war, but that was
> > certainly offset even at the time in the North by the rate of
> > immigration
> > which only continued to grow by leaps and bounds in the post-war years
> > and
> > in all the decades leading up to World War I.
> > But that leads to another question: Was there the post-Civil War
> > equivalent of the post World War II Baby Boom as hundreds of thousands
> > of
> > young men returned home to their wives or got married in the years
> > right
> > after the war and started families?
> > With regards,
> > Chet
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:46:06 EST
> > From: DShultz180 at aol.com
> > Subject: GDG- Re: Consider the source
> > To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> > Message-ID: <cf1.2829c145.34cce7fe at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > > <<Foote does get credit for lots of interesting, simple maps that
> > show
> > > major troop movements.>>
> > >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I doubt any of those maps were his. You are right, however, in that one
> > must
> > consider the source and take it for what it is.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************
> > Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> >
> > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00
> > 3000000025
> > 48)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:34:44 -0800
> > From: "Chet Diestel" <chetd1 at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Re:Shelby Foote took perfectly legal advantage
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <001401c8605a$e35dd640$5981bb43 at newone>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > "Facts" are often as illusionary as the proverbial pot of gold at the
> > end
> > of the rainbow and certainly a lot more fluid.
> > By that, I mean the appearance of newly discovered information
> > tucked
> > away in the attic in the form of someone's great grandfather's
> > never-published diary or the resurfacing of all but forgotten sources,
> > such
> > as Coddington and the Bachelder Papers, can result in sweeping today's
> > accepted "facts" into history's dustbin or at least render historians,
> > professional and amateur, reason to put new interpretations or
> > perspective
> > on events, Stuart's actions during the campaign, as Tom brought up,
> > being an
> > excellent example.
> > Of course, that raises a question of: Just what is a fact?
> > For example, what is the true fact of how long the Confederate
> > artillery
> > bombardment of July 3 preceding Pickett's Charge (or any other name one
> > may
> > prefer as being more "factual.") last? Historians by the score have
> > written
> > about it, but the best they can do is an approximate for the so-called
> > "fact" is in wide disagreement. Those who witnessed it and wrote about
> > it
> > either at the time or in subsequent works are all over the map, so to
> > speak.
> > Indeed, even E. Porter Alexander, who probably should have known better
> > than
> > anyone else, renders at least three separate lengths of time for the
> > artillery assault in his post-war writings. So, the fact is that this
> > one
> > fact is an approximation at best.
> > Besides, in assessing a work like Foote's Narrative, we must always
> > keep
> > in mind the "facts" --- sources, if you would --- that were available
> > to him
> > a half-century ago compared with all the distinguished works --- both
> > academic and popular --- which have been published in all the years
> > between,
> > along with new primary material which as come to light, have altered
> > some of
> > those facts and given new perspectives in revision interpretations to
> > others.
> > But then, perhaps the most lasting tribute to Foote's place in Civil
> > War
> > literature is the very fact that 50 years later his three volumes are
> > still
> > in print and still selling and that parts of them --- on the Vicksburg
> > and
> > Gettysburg campaigns --- have been pulled out and published as quite
> > successful works on their own merits.
> > Moreover, like Bruce Catton, Foote's works --- because they were so
> > well-written and readable and successful in the marketplace --- did as
> > much
> > as any historical work to reawaken the almost dormant interest in the
> > Civil
> > War as its historical light was blocked by the immense forest shadow of
> > World War II.
> > With regards,
> > Chet
> >
> >
> >
> > Esteemed GDG Member Tom Ryan Contributes:
> >
> > Dave,
> > Thanks for that most interesting contribution to the topic. I would
> > like
> > to add one caveat, if I may, to the subject of the validity of
> > historians'
> > work. I have noticed a tendency, if only limited but still an issue,
> > of
> > historians to "borrow" from one another and perpetuate a "fact' without
> > thorougly looking into it on their own. In other words, they rely on
> > their
> > fellow historians to have done the research properly, but,
> > unfortunately,
> > that is not always the case.
> >
> > Just one example, and this has been discussed here before, is the
> > long
> > running contention that Jeb Stuart had gone off on his own during the
> > Gettysburg Campaign, and had callously ignored his responsibilities to
> > General Lee and the ANV to pursue personal aggrandizement. That, I
> > believe,
> > has been suffiently debunked in recent works, yet the story continues
> > to be
> > perpetuated.
> >
> > While historians get it right most of the time, there are instances
> > when
> > short cuts are taken and proper research methods ignored.
> > Tom Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:25:14 -0500
> > From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> > Subject: RE: GDG- Re:Shelby Foote took perfectly legal advantage
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEOEGADIAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > <<Moreover, like Bruce Catton, Foote's works --- because they were so
> > well-written and readable and successful in the marketplace --- did as
> > much
> > as any historical work to reawaken the almost dormant interest in the
> > Civil
> > War as its historical light was blocked by the immense forest shadow of
> > World War II.>>
> >
> > Regarding the ebb and flow of interest in the Civil War over the
> > years, see
> > the interview with Ed Bearss in the latest GM issue.
> >
> > Tom Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:03:20 +0000
> > From: manassas1 at comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Muster
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012620082203.27731.479BAE280005984000006C532215578674CE9C0E9C9C0
> E020E
> > 03 at comcast.net>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > Christ......
> >
> > Apparently they do. I called the Quality Inn a week or so ago and
> > asked if the GDG had a block of rooms reserved for June 6-7 and they
> > said "yes".
> >
> > Eileen Murphy
> > Bristow, VA
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Christ Liebegott" <jcl738 at comcast.net>
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we have rooms set aside at the Quality Inn yet?
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:10:35 EST
> > From: NPeters102 at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Foote
> > To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> > Message-ID: <cc4.26882beb.34cd09db at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/26/2008 10:09:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > jlawrence at kc.rr.com writes:
> >
> > Faulkner has a great line in a book about every Southern Boy growing
> > up
> > spending time in a a place where it is always 4:00 on July 3, 1863,
> > and they turn
> > the tide at the angle.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he
> > wants
> > it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two oclock on that
> > July
> > afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence,
> > the guns
> > are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already
> > loosened to
> > break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat
> > in one
> > hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting
> > for
> > Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it hasn't
> > happened yet,
> > it hasn't even begun yet, it not only hasn't begun yet but there is
> > stll time
> > for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances
> > which made
> > more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armstead and Wilcox look grave
> > yet it's
> > going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at
> > stake
> > and that moment doesn't need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think This
> >
> > time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose and all this much to
> > gain:
> > Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself
> > to crown
> > with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast
> > made two
> > years ago.... "
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Mike Peters
> > npeters102 at aol.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> >
> > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00
> > 3000000025
> > 48)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:06:39 EST
> > From: Rgrandchamp40 at aol.com
> > Subject: GDG- Sixth Corps Distance
> > To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> > Message-ID: <cd8.22197c6c.34cd250f at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >
> > I am currently working on a piece chronicling the Sixth Corps' epic
> > march to
> > Gettysburg on July 1-2. Unfortunately none of the sources, (mostly 2nd
> > Brig,
> > 3rd Div.) vary tremendously in the distance marched, with between 34
> > and 42
> > miles being quoted. 35 and 37 are the most quoted. I know that the
> > corps was
> > spread out over 5 miles and that they were sent to different portions
> > of the
> > line. What are some other Sixth Corps distances and sources available
> > for
> > this.
> >
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Robert Grandchamp
> > Graduate Student
> > Dept. of History
> > Rhode Island College
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> >
> > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00
> > 3000000025
> > 48)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:08:39 +0000
> > From: mdblough1 at comcast.net (Margaret D. Blough)
> > Subject: RE: GDG- Shelby Foote's sources
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012720080008.1619.479BCB8700066D6A000006532200761438CE08099A0104
> 0D0B0
> > 3 at comcast.net>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > There is also McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom" which is very
> > readable and impeccably scholarly. McPherson has never seen
> > scholarship and readability as being inconsistent in any way.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Margaret
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > <> incredibly dry. Let's allow for the poetic.>>
> > >
> > > And fortunately not all Civil War historians are cut from the same
> > writing
> > > cloth. Case in point is Stephen Sears whose style makes for easy and
> > > enjoyable reading. His background as a journalist no doubt accounts
> > for
> > > that.
> > >
> > > Tom Ryan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:30:38 -0500
> > From: Carl Chatto <cchatto at maine.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Shelby Foote's sources
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <479BD0AE.60004 at maine.rr.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > You beat me to it! I was going to make exactly the same point.
> >
> > I also agree about Sears.
> >
> > -Carl
> >
> > Margaret D. Blough wrote:
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > There is also McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom" which is very
> > readable and impeccably scholarly. McPherson has never seen
> > scholarship and readability as being inconsistent in any way.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Margaret
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> <> incredibly dry. Let's allow for the poetic.>>
> > >>
> > >> And fortunately not all Civil War historians are cut from the same
> > writing
> > >> cloth. Case in point is Stephen Sears whose style makes for easy and
> > >> enjoyable reading. His background as a journalist no doubt accounts
> > for
> > >> that.
> > >>
> > >> Tom Ryan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:56:11 -0800
> > From: "Chet Diestel" <chetd1 at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Sixth Corps Distance
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <000c01c86090$2cd23570$5981bb43 at newone>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > Esteemed GDG Member Robert Grandchamp Contributes:
> >
> > I am currently working on a piece chronicling the Sixth Corps' epic
> > march
> > to Gettysburg on July 1-2. Unfortunately none of the sources, (mostly
> > 2nd
> > Brig, 3rd Div.) vary tremendously in the distance marched, with
> > between 34
> > and 42 miles being quoted. 35 and 37 are the most quoted. I know that
> > the
> > corps was spread out over 5 miles and that they were sent to different
> > portions of the line. What are some other Sixth Corps distances and
> > sources
> > available for this.
> > Respectfully,
> > Robert Grandchamp
> > Graduate Student
> > Dept. of History
> > Rhode Island College
> >
> > Robert:
> > You didn't say exactly what sources you have consulted, but for what
> > it is
> > worth, Capt. Elisha Hunt Rhodes. 2nd R.I. Infantry, in his "All for the
> > Union: The Civil War Diary and Letters of Elisha Hunt Rhodes" (edited
> > by
> > Robert Hunt Rhodes) in an entry dated Middletown, Md. July 8, 1863
> > relates
> > the march of the VI Corps to Gettysburg including "At about 2 o'clock
> > P.M.
> > we reached the Battlefield of Gettysburg, Penn. having made a march of
> > thirty-four (34) miles without a halt." (Page 115.)
> > With regards,
> > Chet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:56:39 -0500
> > From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> > Subject: RE: GDG- Sixth Corps Distance
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEKEGCDIAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > <<I am currently working on a piece chronicling the Sixth Corps' epic
> > march
> > to
> > Gettysburg on July 1-2. Unfortunately none of the sources, (mostly 2nd
> > Brig,
> > 3rd Div.) vary tremendously in the distance marched, with between 34
> > and 42
> > miles being quoted. 35 and 37 are the most quoted. I know that the
> > corps was
> > spread out over 5 miles and that they were sent to different portions
> > of the
> > line. What are some other Sixth Corps distances and sources available
> > for
> > this.>>
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > In an article in Issue 22 of Gettysburg Magazine titled "'Sedgwick's
> > Foot
> > Cavalry': The March of the Sixth Corps to Gettysburg" by David A. Ward
> > (page 64), James Latta of the 119th Pennsylvania is quoted in a
> > post-war
> > speech stating that the Sixth Corps marched 37 miles to Gettysburg in
> > seventeen hours.
> >
> > Tom Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:10:29 +0000
> > From: huddleston.r at comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Foote
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012720080610.1391.479C2055000DF7210000056F22007358349DD202019B9C
> 0A040
> > B0B9A08 at comcast.net>
> >
> >
> > Foote was born 51 years after Appomattox. We are now 63 years after
> > Hiroshima. And there are lots of WWII vets still around -- even though
> > they are dying off.
> >
> > --
> > Take care,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Judy and Bob Huddleston
> > 10643 Sperry Street
> > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
> > huddleston.r at comcast.net
> >
> > "Problems will always torment us because all important problems are
> > insoluble: that is why they are important. The good comes from the
> > continuing struggle to try and solve them, not from the vain hope of
> > their solution."
> >
> > - Historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:47:33 +0000
> > From: huddleston.r at comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: GDG- Foote
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012720080647.12582.479C290500088D3E0000312622007503309DD202019B9
> C0A04
> > 0B0B9A08 at comcast.net>
> >
> >
> > “The period opened up with one of the bloodiest
> > wars in American history. The American Civil War, so destructive of
> > life and property in the short run, nevertheless had little impact on
> > long-term trends in American demographic history. Its immediate
> > demographic effects were quite pronounced, however. The conscription of
> > almost half of the eligible young adult males had a negative effect on
> > fertility, and their high rate of deaths had a positive effect on
> > mortality in the first half of the 1860s. It is estimated that the war
> > caused the mobilization of 2.6 million men and that the total number of
> > deaths on both sides was 618,000, with roughly another 472,000 wounded.
> > This was out of a population of 32 million, of whom some 5.8 million
> > were white males aged 15-39 in 1860. This meant that a ratio of 1 in 5
> > young white males then resident in the country either died or were
> > wounded in the war, which was the highest such ratio ever recorded in
> > an American war. In fact,
> > in no U.S. war, including that of Vietnam, were American causalities so
> > high in absolute numbers. [In WWI, under 6% of American troops
> > mobilized were killed or wounded, and in WWII, less than 1 % of the
> > young male population of the country aged 15 to 44 years were killed or
> > wounded.]
> > “Births declined during the war by an estimated 10%,
> > resulting in half a million lost births, and the first two years of the
> > war were the lowest in terms of the arrival of European immigrants from
> > 1844 to 1931. In all, among deaths, lost births, and lost immigrant
> > population, the war probably led to a deficit of 3 million people in
> > 1870. Although there was the usual spike in postwar birth rates in the
> > late 1860s and early 1870s, general fertility rates thereafter
> > continued their long-term secular decline for the rest of the century."
> >
> > Herbert S. Klein, A Population History of the United States, New York:
> > Cambridge University Press, 2004, pp 108-109
> >
> > An excellent well written and well researched -- and footnoted -- book.
> > I recommend it highly. In these two paragraphs there are three
> > footnotes. I left the one -- which I put in brackets -- and deleted the
> > others.
> > --
> > Take care,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Judy and Bob Huddleston
> > 10643 Sperry Street
> > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
> > huddleston.r at comcast.net
> >
> > "Problems will always torment us because all important problems are
> > insoluble: that is why they are important. The good comes from the
> > continuing struggle to try and solve them, not from the vain hope of
> > their solution."
> >
> > - Historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: "Chet Diestel" <chetd1 at comcast.net>
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Baniszewski" <jdbano2001 at yahoo.com>
> > > To: <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:51 AM
> > > Subject: GDG- Foote
> > >
> > >
> > > > Esteemed GDG Member John Baniszewski Contributes in reply to
> > another
> > > > member:
> > >
> > > john: Without appearing to dimwitted, if that's possible, wouldn't
> > the
> > > death rate from the war itself skew the averages for that generation?
> > >
> > > Yes it would, but not by as much as you would think. Although the
> > number
> > > of deaths in the Civil War was horrific, statistically they
> > represented
> > > app. 2% of the population, so impact on life expectancy of the
> > entire
> > > country is watered down.
> > >
> > > I could not find data for the US, but the following gives life
> > > expectancy in Sweden in the 1860's, as well as today. The biggest
> > factor in
> > > the longer life expectancy of people today versus 1860 is infant
> > mortality
> > > rate.
> > >
> > > As of age 0 50 65 1861-1870
> > Years
> > > to live 43 19 10
> > > Age at death 43 69 75 2006
> > > Years to live 79 30 18
> > > Age at death 79 80 83
> > > I once asked someone in the Census Bureau what impact the Civil
> > War had
> > > on total US population - would it be much higher today had the war
> > not
> > > occurred. She answered not by much, because the number of deaths
> > among
> > > women is the most important factor.
> > > John Baniszewski
> > >
> > > Any study of the population growth in the nation must, of course,
> > take in
> > > the young men lost to battle or disease during the war, but that was
> > > certainly offset even at the time in the North by the rate of
> > immigration
> > > which only continued to grow by leaps and bounds in the post-war
> > years and
> > > in all the decades leading up to World War I.
> > > But that leads to another question: Was there the post-Civil War
> > > equivalent of the post World War II Baby Boom as hundreds of
> > thousands of
> > > young men returned home to their wives or got married in the years
> > right
> > > after the war and started families?
> > > With regards,
> > > Chet
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:50:04 +0000
> > From: dwmadison at comcast.net
> > Subject: GDG-First Shot
> > To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012720081250.28557.479C7DFC0001C63F00006F8D221205921402019C070B0
> E0399
> > 0B at comcast.net>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > I read where 2nd Lieutenant Marcellius E. Jones on the Eighth Illinois
> > Cavalry has been credited with firing the first shot of the battle of
> > Gettysburg. Were there other soldiers that claimed that they had fired
> > the first shot?
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 17
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:31:45 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Jeff Burk <jlb4tlb at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: GDG-First Shot
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <999499.29327.qm at web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Several people said they fired the first shot. You can read an
> > interesting article about it at the following web site.
> >
> > http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored%20Items/arshot.html
> >
> > Enjoy
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > dwmadison at comcast.net wrote:
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > I read where 2nd Lieutenant Marcellius E. Jones on the Eighth Illinois
> > Cavalry has been credited with firing the first shot of the battle of
> > Gettysburg. Were there other soldiers that claimed that they had fired
> > the first shot?
> >
> > Dennis
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> >
> > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> >
> > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 18
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:51:59 +0000
> > From: dwmadison at comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: GDG-First Shot
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>, GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012720081351.9286.479C8C7F0003FCFD00002446221654868602019C070B0E
> 03990
> > B at comcast.net>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > Thanks Jeff
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Jeff Burk <jlb4tlb at yahoo.com>
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > >
> > > Several people said they fired the first shot. You can read an
> > interesting
> > > article about it at the following web site.
> > >
> > > http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored%20Items/arshot.html
> > >
> > > Enjoy
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > dwmadison at comcast.net wrote:
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > I read where 2nd Lieutenant Marcellius E. Jones on the Eighth
> > Illinois Cavalry
> > > has been credited with firing the first shot of the battle of
> > Gettysburg. Were
> > > there other soldiers that claimed that they had fired the first shot?
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 19
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:51:59 +0000
> > From: dwmadison at comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: GDG-First Shot
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>, GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <012720081351.9286.479C8C7F0003FCFD00002446221654868602019C070B0E
> 03990
> > B at comcast.net>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > Thanks Jeff
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Jeff Burk <jlb4tlb at yahoo.com>
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > >
> > > Several people said they fired the first shot. You can read an
> > interesting
> > > article about it at the following web site.
> > >
> > > http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored%20Items/arshot.html
> > >
> > > Enjoy
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > dwmadison at comcast.net wrote:
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > I read where 2nd Lieutenant Marcellius E. Jones on the Eighth
> > Illinois Cavalry
> > > has been credited with firing the first shot of the battle of
> > Gettysburg. Were
> > > there other soldiers that claimed that they had fired the first shot?
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > You may unsubscribe by going to
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> > >
> > > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> > > http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> > >
> > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> > > http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 20
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:42:03 -0500
> > From: "J. David Petruzzi" <jaydee at pennswoods.net>
> > Subject: RE: GDG-First Shot
> > To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID: <MBBBKFKFNFBKFILFJJGMGEECFGAA.jaydee at pennswoods.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > A couple years ago my article "Opening The Ball At Gettysburg: The Shot
> > That
> > Rang for 50 Years" was published in America's Civil War magazine. It
> > contains the most complete narrative of all known claimants to having
> > fired
> > the first shot. Lt. Marcellus Ephraim Jones indeed fired the first
> > shot at
> > massed Confederates from the 8th Illinois Cavalry's advance vidette
> > post
> > along the Chambersburg Pike in the yard of the Ephraim Wisler home.
> > Jones
> > later placed his marker memorializing that first shot in the yard of
> > the
> > home, then owned by Lt. James Mickley (who served initially in Capt.
> > Robert
> > Bell's Adams County Cavalry and then the 21st PA Cavalry).
> >
> > You can find an online version of the article here:
> > http://www.historynet.com/magazines/american_civil_war/3430626.html
> >
> > Unfortunately, the online version of the article doesn't contain the
> > sidebar
> > piece to the printed version of the article I wrote, which was a story
> > about
> > Pvt. Thomas Benton Kelly of the 8th Illinois Cavalry. Kelly, a cousin
> > of
> > Marcellus Jones, was one of the privates on the vidette post that
> > morning,
> > and witnessed Jones' first shot. Kelly was interviewd by the Boston
> > Globe
> > in 1909, and in that sidebar piece I quote heavily from the Globe
> > article, a
> > great source of primary info on the cavalry's fight that morning.
> >
> > Best,
> > J.D.
> >
> > J. David Petruzzi
> > http://www.jdpetruzzi.com
> > My blog: http://petruzzi.wordpress.com
> > My book: http://www.stuartsride.com and
> > http://www.jdpetruzzi.com/OCF.htm
> >
> >
> > >>Greetings
> >
> > Several people said they fired the first shot. You can read an
> > interesting article about it at the following web site.
> >
> > http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored%20Items/arshot.html
> >
> > Enjoy
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > dwmadison at comcast.net wrote:
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > I read where 2nd Lieutenant Marcellius E. Jones on the Eighth Illinois
> > Cavalry has been credited with firing the first shot of the battle of
> > Gettysburg. Were there other soldiers that claimed that they had fired
> > the
> > first shot?
> >
> > Dennis>>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 21
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:50:07 -0500
> > From: "Jeff Quinton" <jeff.quinton at gmail.com>
> > Subject: GDG- 2nd SOUTH CAROLINA STRING BAND CONCERT_LIVE IN
> > GETTYSBURG ON MARCH 8th 2008
> > To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> > Message-ID:
> > <f21edfe80801270650r7051e0e2h248235fc2b931b23 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > [original header snipped]
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Joe Ewers
> > <iamewers at embarqmail.com>
> > *To:* A Friend <iamewers at embarqmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2008 4:38 PM
> > *Subject:* 2nd SOUTH CAROLINA STRING BAND CONCERT_LIVE IN GETTYSBURG ON
> > MARCH 8th 2008
> >
> > Greetings Friend of the 2nd South Carolina String Band,
> >
> > First of all, we'd like to express our sincere thanks for your support
> > of
> > our band in the past couple of years by virtue of the fact that you
> > have
> > purchased our CDs through the auspices of CD Baby.
> >
> > We're sending you the following message because:
> > A. We thought you might be interested attending and participating in
> > our
> > upcoming concert in Gettysburg.
> > B. From your address, it looked like you *might* live close enough that
> > such
> > attendance could be possible.
> >
> > In any case, we're giving a concert (two, actually), and you're
> > cordially
> > invited to join us.
> > Please take a look at the following information and feel free to share
> > it
> > with any like-minded
> > individuals who you think might also be interested.
> >
> > Again, thanks for your past support. We hope to see you in March. Until
> > then,
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Joe Ewers
> > 2nd South Carolina String Band
> >
> > *Ladies and Gentlemen, Friends, Family, and Fellow Reenactors!*
> >
> > *The 2nd South Carolina String Band Invites You to Join Us! -*
> >
> > as we present, here in Gettysburg, PA, on March 8th, 2008, Reenactors
> > Appreciation Weekend, TWO, yes, two live concerts, which will be
> > recorded
> > for posterity to be released as our next album later in 2008. It is our
> > fondest hope that our audience will be filled with familiar faces from
> > seasons past as well as new ones we've yet to meet.
> >
> > The programme will be filled with many of the greatest and best known
> > songs
> > of the era played on period instruments in period style and with our
> > usual
> > gusto and panache! You don't want to miss out on being a part of these
> > performances. Or on being able to say, "I was there that night! What a
> > show!"
> >
> > "What must I do to assure myself a seat at one (or both) of these
> > exciting
> > performances," you ask? Well, friend, let us tell you:
> >
> > Send us a check or money order for $10 *no later than March 1st*, for
> > each
> > RESERVED ticket you require and tell us which concert seating you would
> > prefer:
> >
> > *Matinee: 4 to 6 pm*, approximately.
> >
> > *Evening: 8 to 10 pm*, approximately. Light refreshments
> > will be
> > served following each performance.
> >
> > Please Note: Seating will be on a first-come, first-served basis.
> >
> > *Maximum seating available: 150 per show*.
> >
> > The concerts will be held at the *American Legion Home*, 538 East
> > Middle
> > Street, Gettysburg PA 17325 - a venue selected for its excellent
> > acoustic
> > properties, convenient location, available parking, and, of course,
> > availability of alcoholic beverages to responsible individuals of a
> > legal
> > age.
> >
> > It was our original intent to offer these concerts free of charge.
> > However,
> > several considerations caused us to reconsider and instead request from
> > you
> > the nominal sum of $10. Limited seating was one factor and recouping a
> > small
> > portion of our costs another. However, in the end, and in that spirit
> > of
> > giving, we instead decided to make the following offer:
> >
> > In exchange for your $10 commitment, reserving a seat and attending one
> > of
> > our concerts, we will present you, 'free' of charge, a CD copy of the
> > show
> > when the album is ready for release later this year. Once we receive
> > your
> > check or money order (sorry, no credit card orders are possible), your
> > name
> > and address will be placed on a list of reserved ticket holders, which
> > we
> > shall compile. All you need to do is present your identification at the
> > door
> > on the day of the concert (license, copy of this email, ticket number,
> > etc.). We will mark you down as 'Present for Duty' on our list of
> > Reserved
> > Ticket Holders. This action will validate the fact that you were,
> > indeed,
> > present and a part of the audience, and are thereby entitled to your
> > own
> > live concert CD recording. When it's ready, we'll get it out to you, or
> > you
> > can pick it up when we see you in the field.
> >
> > OK, it's not exactly free, but *you will be an important part* of a
> > live
> > performance by America's premier Civil War camp band; you will receive
> > a CD
> > recorded at those performances at no further cost to you; you will have
> > had
> > a great time! All for the nominal sum of $10. How great is that!?
> >
> > Some tickets MAY be available at the door for each performance, but we
> > strongly recommend you get them early.
> >
> > So, don't dally. *Order your tickets right away!* Here's how:
> >
> > Send check or money order for $10 per ticket, postmarked
> > *no
> > later than March 1st*,
> > along with the name and address of each person who will be attending
> > to:
> >
> > *2nd South Carolina String Band*,
> >
> > 1820 Old Harrisburg Road,
> >
> > Gettysburg PA 17325-8119
> >
> > See you in March!
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Quinton
> > http://insidecharmcity.com
> > Baltimore, MD
> > (410) 370-9262
> > jeff.quinton at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > You may unsubscribe at
> > http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> >
> > End of Gettysburg Digest, Vol 44, Issue 31
> > ******************************************
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> You may unsubscribe by going to http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
>
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>
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