GDG- An good example of Shelby Foote's descriptive prose
Mike Rinehart
MRinehart at mail.rossford.k12.oh.us
Fri Jan 25 12:19:35 CST 2008
On page 343 at the conclusion of the first days battle at Shiloh, Mr.
Foote writes:
"Here on the battlefield which took its name from the log church called
Shiloh--interpreted by Bible scholars to mean "the place of peace"--thos
who could found shelter in the Federal camps and had their dreams
invaded by the drum of rain on canvas. Others slept in the open, where
the rain fell alike on the upturned faces of the dead and of those who
slept among them, inured by having seen so much of death that day
already, or else just made indifferent by exhaustion."
In my opinion this is great stuff. A bit different than the typical,
modern study of the war. I can just hear that rain hitting the canvas
and the groans of the dying as the rain pelts them.
Mike R.
-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-request at arthes.com
To: gettysburg at arthes.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:05:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Gettysburg Digest, Vol 44, Issue 28
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> 1. Re:GDG-Footnotes (Charles TJoyce)
> 2. RE: footnotes (Bob Coffman - Info From Data Corp.)
> 3. Re:GDG-Footnotes (Richard M Kadas)
> 4. RE: footnotes (Bob Vary)
> 5. Re: GDG - Foote (notes) delurking briefly (Carl Chatto)
> 6. RE: GDG - Foote (notes) delurking briefly (Bob Huddleston)
> 7. TY: 124th NY (Matthew and Tina Hauck)
> 8. RE: Foote-notes (Tom Gilbert)
> 9. RE: Foote-notes (Tom Ryan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:11:11 -0500
> From: "Charles TJoyce" <CTJoyce at spearwilderman.com>
> Subject: Re:GDG-Footnotes
> To: <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <s7988e76.003 at fs1.spearwilderman.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> It took me all year (well, March to December, 2007) but I got thru all
> 3 Volumes of Foote's trilogy. It was a great read, however, I found
> numerous errors in his Gettysburg treatment which I pointed out some
> time ago on this forum. Among other things, he said that Buford's men
> had Spencer repeaters and that Big Round Top was the highest elevation
> in Adams County (It's not even close, really). All that led me to be
> somewhat suspect of his handling of naval action and the Western
> theatre, both topics of which I know little.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission and the attachments
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> not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used or relied upon
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:13:19 -0500
> From: "Bob Coffman - Info From Data Corp." <bcoffman at infofromdata.com>
> Subject: RE: GDG- footnotes
> To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <009101c85ebd$2e4087b0$3602a8c0 at ad.infofromdata.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >One of the reasons Shelby Foote was such a good writer was that he
> also was
> an avid reader.
>
> I don't have any proof, but I would suspect that that is the case for
> all
> great writers of prose.
>
> As far as footnoted/not footnoted - I'm ok with it either way. If
> there are
> primary sources cited, I know its good history, if not, it may just be
> a
> good read.
>
> Caveat lector!
>
> - Bob Coffman
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:50:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: Richard M Kadas <rkadas at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re:GDG-Footnotes
> To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <769393.29443.qm at web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> It seems that from all the posts on the Shelby Foote thread he might be
> a good author to read for fun. He appears to come from a long hallowed
> Southern tradition of story telling where one never lets the facts get
> in the way of a good story. Unfortunately, I am an analyst who
> questions statements such as, Mr. Foote learned much from conversations
> with Confederate veterans. As Mr. Fote was born in 1916 there were few
> CSA veterans around with whom to speak. The average life U.S. male life
> expectancy in 1900 was 47 years. Massachusetts was one of the few
> states which kept life expectancy tables. For a man born in Mass. in
> 1850 life expectancy was 40.1 years. It seems unreasonable that life
> expectancy for men born in the South to exceed it by much. Gven the
> life expectancy data, most CSA vets would have died prior to mr.
> Foote's birth assuming an enlistment age of 17 years and a life
> expectancy of 40.1.
> Dick
>
> Charles TJoyce <CTJoyce at spearwilderman.com> wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> It took me all year (well, March to December, 2007) but I got thru all
> 3 Volumes of Foote's trilogy. It was a great read, however, I found
> numerous errors in his Gettysburg treatment which I pointed out some
> time ago on this forum. Among other things, he said that Buford's men
> had Spencer repeaters and that Big Round Top was the highest elevation
> in Adams County (It's not even close, really). All that led me to be
> somewhat suspect of his handling of naval action and the Western
> theatre, both topics of which I know little.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission and the attachments
> accompanying it may contain confidential information from the law firm
> of Spear Wilderman, P.C. which is protected by the attorney-client
> communication privilege or the work product privilege. The information
> is intended only for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not
> the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or the
> taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited. Any unauthorized interception of this transmission
> is illegal. If you have received this transmission in error, please
> promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies
> of the transmission
>
> IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: Pursuant to Treasury Regulations, any tax
> advice contained in this communication (including any attachments ) are
> not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used or relied upon
> by you or any other person, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties
> under Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or
> recommending to any other part tax advice addressed herein.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:21:59 -0500
> From: "Bob Vary" <gburg74 at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: GDG- footnotes
> To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <002701c85ee8$4d9e6930$e8db3b90$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Right on. I don't think the vast majority of Foote's readers give a
> fig
> about footnotes. Footnotes and endnotes are there for scholars and
> students. People like most in this group, including myself, smugly
> purport
> to be. Foote aimed his work at those who have an interest in history,
> but
> are bored to tears by most of the bone dry histories written by
> academics.
> Does it really matter to these folks whether Buford had Spencers or if
> Round
> is or isn't the highest peak in Adams County? Foote did a marvelous
> job in
> bringing the Civil War alive. Let's not be so elitist and remember
> that WE
> weren't the ones he was writing for.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
> [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
> On Behalf Of mfitz54 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:59 AM
> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> Subject: Re: GDG- footnotes
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>
> I am not an historian so I would never even have noticed that these
> books
> didn't contain
>
> footnotes.
>
> What I do find so amazing is?that this man took so many years of his
> writing
> career to write
>
> this fabulous story in a way that the average person would pick it up
> and
> find it so enthralling
>
> and entertaining. It is a monumental, remarkable work of prose.
> The sales of the books were moderately successful, but it wasn't until
> the
> Civil War series
> the they exploded, thus making Shelby a wealthy man.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:36:38 -0500
> From: Carl Chatto <cchatto at maine.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: GDG- GDG - Foote (notes) delurking briefly
> To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <47993D26.802 at maine.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Foote is good to read in contrast with McPherson's Battle Cry of
> Freedom
> to see the Southern vs. Northern viewpoint.
>
> Carl
>
> Bob Guthrie wrote:
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > I've loved Shelby Foote's trilogy since I first picked it up 20 some
> years
> > ago. I heard Mr. Foote speak at a writer's conference before his
> death and
> > he was a delightful speaker. But I don't really believe he thought
> of
> > himself as either the eminent historian that Ken Burn's may have
> accidently
> > turned him into, nor the author of "the last word" on the war. He
> wrote a
> > narrative history of the American Civil War with essentially a
> Southern
> > viewpoint, period. I don't find the lack of footnotes or a
> bibliography
> > diminishes the enjoyment of the writing at all.
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > You may unsubscribe by going to
> http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> >
> > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> >
> > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:12:08 -0700
> From: "Bob Huddleston" <huddleston.r at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: GDG- GDG - Foote (notes) delurking briefly
> To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <93DA057FC3014458863A2DB20B538CB1 at BobPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Not the least of the differences in the two books is that one can check
> out
> McPherson's assertions by looking at the bottom of the page and reading
> his
> footnotes.
>
> Take care,
>
> Bob
>
> Judy and Bob Huddleston
> 10643 Sperry Street
> Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
> huddleston.r at comcast.net
>
> "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are
> insane."
> ---Mark Twain, 1907
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
> [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Chatto
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:37 PM
> To: GDG
> Subject: Re: GDG- GDG - Foote (notes) delurking briefly
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Foote is good to read in contrast with McPherson's Battle Cry of
> Freedom
> to see the Southern vs. Northern viewpoint.
>
> Carl
>
> Bob Guthrie wrote:
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > I've loved Shelby Foote's trilogy since I first picked it up 20 some
> years
> > ago. I heard Mr. Foote speak at a writer's conference before his
> death
> and
> > he was a delightful speaker. But I don't really believe he thought
> of
> > himself as either the eminent historian that Ken Burn's may have
> accidently
> > turned him into, nor the author of "the last word" on the war. He
> wrote a
> > narrative history of the American Civil War with essentially a
> Southern
> > viewpoint, period. I don't find the lack of footnotes or a
> bibliography
> > diminishes the enjoyment of the writing at all.
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > You may unsubscribe by going to
> http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
> >
> > You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
> >
> > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
> >
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> You may unsubscribe by going to
> http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
>
> You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
>
> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:15:44 -0800 (PST)
> From: Matthew and Tina Hauck <mhth at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: GDG- TY: 124th NY
> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> Message-ID: <846869.31683.qm at web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Thanks guys. I am aware or the Troiani print, but was unaware of the
> depiction of the corps badge and I actually looked before asking.
>
> RYOS,
>
> Matthew Hauck
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:33:44 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tom Gilbert <tommygeebassman at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: GDG- Foote-notes
> To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <885177.71696.qm at web39815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> For whatever it's worth, during my graduate study in the 1990's, my
> professors at American Military University apparently thought enough of
> Foote's work to frequently include him among required and recommended
> reading lists .. note, I said "among" - there were plenty of other
> sources added to provide whatever balance was needed .. example, during
> Gettysburg studies, Coddington was the main source of study, Foote and
> several others in "supportive" roles .. Tom Gilbert
>
> Bob Vary <gburg74 at comcast.net> wrote: Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Right on. I don't think the vast majority of Foote's readers give a fig
> about footnotes. Footnotes and endnotes are there for scholars and
> students. People like most in this group, including myself, smugly
> purport
> to be. Foote aimed his work at those who have an interest in history,
> but
> are bored to tears by most of the bone dry histories written by
> academics.
> Does it really matter to these folks whether Buford had Spencers or if
> Round
> is or isn't the highest peak in Adams County? Foote did a marvelous job
> in
> bringing the Civil War alive. Let's not be so elitist and remember that
> WE
> weren't the ones he was writing for.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
> [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
> On Behalf Of mfitz54 at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:59 AM
> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> Subject: Re: GDG- footnotes
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>
> I am not an historian so I would never even have noticed that these
> books
> didn't contain
>
> footnotes.
>
> What I do find so amazing is?that this man took so many years of his
> writing
> career to write
>
> this fabulous story in a way that the average person would pick it up
> and
> find it so enthralling
>
> and entertaining. It is a monumental, remarkable work of prose.
> The sales of the books were moderately successful, but it wasn't until
> the
> Civil War series
> the they exploded, thus making Shelby a wealthy man.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> You may unsubscribe by going to
> http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
>
> You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
> http://www.frappr.com/gettysburgdiscussiongroup
>
> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
> http://mailman.arthes.com/pipermail/gettysburg/
>
>
>
> tommygee WKZV 1110 AM Washington,Pa. Traditional Country and Bluegrass.
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Search.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:00:45 -0500
> From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> Subject: RE: GDG- Foote-notes
> To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Message-ID: <FEEOKINCPINMNKHDCDCEKEFJDIAA.pennmardel at mchsi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> <<For whatever it's worth, during my graduate study in the 1990's, my
> professors at American Military University apparently thought enough of
> Foote's work to frequently include him among required and recommended
> reading lists ..>>
>
> A book that was recommended to students at the Army War College in
> Carlisle
> a few years ago (may still be) as background for undertanding what
> happened
> at Gettysburg was, you guessed it, "The Killer Angels." If Foote's
> work had
> the flavor of a novel, this, of course, was pure fiction, if of the
> historical variety.
>
> Tom Ryan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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