GDG- The new VC
Margaret D. Blough
mdblough1 at comcast.net
Tue Apr 29 11:03:29 CDT 2008
Actually, Ewell was within a few miles of Harrisburg and was about to make the final moves to take it when Lee called him back. Harrisburg had minimal defenses and, certainly, nothing on a par with veteran combat troops.
I don't think the Confederates had any intention of holding Harrisburg or any other territory north of the Mason-Dixon Line for any length of time. As Sherman demonstrated the next year in Georgia, long-term occupation is not necessary to achieve the goal of demonstrating to citizens that their government is incapable of performing one of the most fundamental duties that a government has, defending its territory and its people against attack. In addition, this would have demonstrated to foreign governments that the Confederacy was a force to be reckoned with. Since it didn't happen, we'll never know what the foreign reaction would have been to the fall of Harrisburg, but it certainly couldn't have hurt the Confederacy's prospects for recognition.
Regards,
Margaret
-------------- Original message --------------
From: The Mills <kkamills at embarqmail.com>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> All intentions and actually doing it are two different things. Capturing
> Harrisburg is a far cry from your stated intentions of capturing Baltimore and
> Philadelphia in your original post.
>
> McClellan had all intentions of capturing Richmond in 1862, Burnside in late
> 1862, but did they do it? Intentions are drastically different from actually
> being able to carry it out.
>
> Lee couldn't supply his army via the Cumberland Valley as he couldn't keep his
> lines secure. He cut his lines because of this very fact once he crossed the
> Potomac. He didn't have the means nor the infrastructure to supply his army in
> enemy territory especially the further and deeper he penetrated.
>
> People state different things for different reasons. One of the main reasons
> was to keep his ANV in-tact and together and for that, he needed an offensive
> campaign and he had to come up with the reasons for this campaign and why it was
> more important than to send a large detachment of his army to relive Vicksburg.
> Lee couldn't see the big picture outside of Virginia and why it would have been
> better for the Confederacy as a whole to save Vicksburg. He could only see
> Virginia and his precious ANV, so he had to come up with some pretty good
> reasons his campaign was more beneficial than saving Vicksburg.
>
> After 1862, there is no forgeign intervention from England and France, the
> Emancipation Proclamation sealed that. France wasn't going to act without
> England and England wasn't going to openly support a government that supported
> slavery.
>
> The ANV, as seen after Gettysburg, could not have done much with a defeated AOP
> until resupplied. Also: you seem to think a defeated AOP is going to real back
> to DC and leave the entire area open to the ravages of the ANV. The AOP is not
> the same in 1863 as it had been previously.
>
> Thanks
> Andy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: collins d
> To: GDG
> Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: GDG- The new VC
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Please refer to the Official Records of the Civil War. Lee had all the
> intentions to capture Harrisburg. And if he had been able to defeat the AoP, who
> was going to stop him? The important word here "defeat".
>
> Your reason for Lee invading the North is a minor reason. His reasons for
> invading are mentioned in Sears and Coddington...to keep the initiative so that
> the AoP has to respond to the ANV marches and advances, to allow the farmers of
> the Shenendoah Valley time to harvest, to raid the North to live of the land and
> to gain supplies, to influence the elections of 1864, and to influence England
> and France to intervene.
>
> Lee could have been supplied via the Cumberland Valley.
>
> It is nothing but a pipe dream.to think the ANV would have remained static if
> they had defeated the AoP and sent them back reeeling to the defenses of
> Washington.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: The Mills
>
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > Collins D:
> >
> > Lets not forget another reason Lee invades the North: to keep a major portion
> > of his precious ANV from being sent West to relieve pressure on Vicksburg. If
> > Lee remains on the defensive, his precious ANV is used as reinforcements to
> > relieve Vicksburg. Only an offensive campaign keeps it intact.
> >
> > Lee is never able to penetrate as far as Philadelphia or Baltmore and after a
> > battle with the AOP (in which case the AOP would be defeated to a point they
> > would have to fall back to DC), would never be in a position to renew a
> campaign
> > and capture any city. Look what happened after Gettysburg, the ANV had no
> > ammunition to renew the contest had they wanted to. Had Pickett's Charge
> > succeeded, what would the ANV had done anyway? They had no ammunition to
> > continue anyway and no supply line to get more.
> >
> > It is a pipe dream to think the ANV had the logistics to penetrate that deep
> and
> > to have a campaign that could be more than one battle.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: collins d
> > To: GDG
> > Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:32:21 -0400 (EDT)
> > Subject: Re: GDG- The new VC
> >
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > Let's try and remember the reasons that Lee invaded the North. One was to
> > encourage the peace democrats and try to influence the elections in 1864. If
> > the AoP is defeated, and falls back to DC, the Lee could have
> > captured..Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Baltimore. Who knows what would have
> > happened next?
> > Yes ..history does move on...but events play a big part. If the Japanese
> defeat
> > and sink the US carriers at Midway...and then invade Hawaii...who knows how
> > long WW2 would have lasted.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Laurence Schiller
> >
> > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings all - I think it is a little simplistic to suggest that if
> > > Gettysburg is lost, then the war is lost, slavery goes on forever,
> > > etc. etc. Aside from the questions of losing Gettysburg and yet still
> > > winning the war (and we had this discussion some time ago), the
> > > assumption that history doesn't keep moving on is rather flawed. It
> > > is easy to compare a victorious south with South Africa and it's
> > > move from slavery to Apartheid, but even in that radical case, things
> > > have changed radically in 150 years. If we change one variable,
> > > Gettysburg, we have to allow the shifting of many and to say that no
> > > civil rights leader emerges, baseball doesn't get Latin Players, even
> > > that the N and S might not have formed some type of federation in the
> > > 20th century as protection against European (or Chinese) power, is
> > > very simplistic. History is complicated, which is why, I guess, I
> > > don't like alternative history a la what if Stonewall had been
> > > there... So I have to agree that it is a bit of a stretch.
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > Laurie Schiller
> > >
> > > On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:25 PM, collins.d at comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No I don't think so. If there was no Civil War...no land grant
> > > > colleges, no railroad to the weas coast. No freedom for Afro-
> > > > Americans....there fore no Martin Luther King, no Lary Doby, no
> > > > Jackie Robinson....and probably no Latin American players.
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > From: JIM COOKE
> > > >
> > > >> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Little bit of a stretch there.
> > > >> JC
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: collins d
> > > >> To: GDG
> > > >> Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:48:49 -0400 (EDT)
> > > >> Subject: RE: GDG- The new VC
> > > >>
> > > >> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> If there hadn't been a Gettysburg, there would have never been a
> > > >> Matin Luther
> > > >> King, nor a Jackie Robinson, nor a Christa McAulliffe.
> > > >>
> > > >> -------------- Original message --------------
> > > >> From: Dennis Lawrence
> > > >>
> > > >>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> .
> > > >>>> Some of it left me scratching my head. Especially why was Martin
> > > >>>> Luther King
> > > >>>> included and what did he have to do with Gettysburg? I have
> > > >>>> ideas on what
> > > >>>> that was supposed to tell the visitor, but that confused me..
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hello,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> My humble contribution to the link between Lincoln and King and the
> > > >>> aftermath of the war. .
> > > >>>
> > > >>> http://www.arthes.com/composition/abemartin.htm
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> BTW, one question. Do you know where they get the 1/3 of the
> > > >>>> families owned
> > > >>>> slaves in the south? I have never seen that anywhere!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Here is the most trusted source on the Internet - Esteemed Member
> > > >>> Jim
> > > >>> Epperson's site":
> > > >>>
> > > >>> http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/stat.html
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Take Care
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Dennis
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >>
> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >>
> > > >> You can add yourself to the GDG map at:
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> > > >>
> > > >> View archived posts from May 2004 - present at
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > > >
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> > > > View archived posts from May 2004 - present at http://
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> > > >
> > >
> > > Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller
> > > lds307 at northwestern.edu
> > >
> > > Maitre d'Armes
> > > Head Fencing Coach Department of History
> > > Northwestern University
> > > Commissioner, Midwest Fencing Conference
> > > Midwest VP, US Fencing Coaches' Association
> > > Vice-Chair USFA Illinois Division
> > > Lds307 at northwestern.edu
> > > 847-491-4654
> > > FAX 847-467-1406
> > > Official Sports site: http://nusports.ocsn.com/
> > > Student web site: http://groups.northwestern.edu/fencing/
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
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