GDG- Re: secession

[Margaret D. Blough]

Laurie,

>>There is more, but it has never made sense to me that somehow the founders just forgot to include legal secession.<<

Especially since they dealt in great detail on Article IV, Section 3 on how new states could be admitted and the circumstances and restrictions as to how states could divide or merge to become new states and, in Article I, Section 8, gave the US Congress the power to 
>>To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;<<-
 
Article 1, Section 8 also gave the US Congress the authority, "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers [set forth in Section 8], and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. "

Regards,

Margaret




-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Laurence Schiller <lds307 at northwestern.edu> 

> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes: 
> 
> 
> Greg - the idea that secession was legal is absolutely incorrect. If 
> you look at the context of the Constitution within the tradition of 
> the Enlightenment, it becomes very clear that a social compact cannot 
> be dissolved by only one part (or state) unilaterally. If the people 
> of the US had met (or their representatives) and together decided to 
> dissolve the Union, you would have a point. However, to say that the 
> Constitution doesn't comment on secession is to completely ignore 1) 
> the Articles of Confederation which state 'the union is perpetual', 
> 2) the Constitution which stated 'in order to create a more perfect 
> Union (than the Articles), 3) the debates of the Constitutional 
> convention which made it clear in their comments to NY and Virginia 
> that they could NOT ratify with an escape clause, 4) James Madison, 
> himself, who stated in 1832 that secession and nullification was 
> absurd in response to SC's actions, and 5) that the reason that, in a 
> document that was detailed enough to talk about the creation of 
> territories and states as well as the sub-division of states, it does 
> NOT lay out a procedure for secession is because secession was 
> considered an action against national soverngty as understood by the 
> founders. Federal law was supreme and it did not allow for unilateral 
> withdrawal. The whole concept of the social contract was that the 
> power was given over by the people unless they seized it back AS A 
> WHOLE. 
> 
> There is more, but it has never made sense to me that somehow the 
> founders just forgot to include legal secession. 
> 
> best, 
> 
> Laurie Schiller 
> 
> On Jun 11, 2007, at 2:38 PM, Biggsk at aol.com wrote: 
> 
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes: 
> > 
> > 
> > Margaret writes: 
> > 
> >>>>> I've always regarded this as a false distinction. The rebels 
> >>>>> were out to 
> > overthrow the United States government in a considerable portion 
> > of the land 
> > over which it had sovereignty. >>>> 
> > 
> > I completely disagree. The people owned the land, not the Federal 
> > government, which only rules by the consent of the people. Thus, 
> > the secessionists 
> > were out to re-establish their own rule over this land and their 
> > own private 
> > property by denying that land to control by a Federal government 
> > of which they 
> > felt had abused its powers. The secessionists took some of their 
> > stance from 
> > the Declaration of Independence where it was quite clear that 
> > government 
> > ruled only with such consent of its people - thus the people are 
> > supreme and not 
> > the government! Even the preamble to the Constitution clearly 
> > states "we the 
> > people, " not we the government. While not having the legal clout 
> > of the 
> > Constitution, the Declaration, cannot really be separated from the 
> > latter 
> > document in terms of its intent - rule of the people loaning their 
> > consent to a 
> > government, which implies that such consent can be, and should be, 
> > withdrawn if 
> > that government abuses its powers. Lastly, there was no law or 
> > portion of 
> > the Constitution that stated that secession of the states was not 
> > legal. 
> > 
> > Additionally, if you had to become a state by voting to do so in 
> > people's 
> > plebiscites then you could, ipso facto, also vote to leave it by 
> > the same 
> > method, which is why the early Southern states used people's 
> > secession conventions 
> > rather than their respective state legislatures. These statehood 
> > votes were 
> > done because of the supremacy of the people - it was their choice 
> > if a 
> > territory became a state and if that went down to defeat then the 
> > territory would 
> > not. Flipping that around, therefore, it was perfectly legal and 
> > well within 
> > the established principles of the time for people to vote to leave 
> > the Union. 
> > 
> > Greg Biggs 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ************************************** See what's free at http:// 
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> > 
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> 
> Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller 
> lds307 at northwestern.edu 
> 
> Maitre d'Armes 
> Head Fencing Coach Department of History 
> Northwestern University 
> Commissioner, Midwest Fencing Conference 
> Midwest VP, US Fencing Coaches' Association 
> Vice-Chair USFA Illinois Division 
> Lds307 at northwestern.edu 
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> 
> 
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