GDG- doubleday

Wed Feb 7 13:35:29 CST 2007

John Pelham had a single operational gun with which he tied up Doubleday's 
division.

At 11:22 AM 2/7/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>Thanks, Fred,
>   Can you tell me more about this that you wrote:
>   "while the reserves were
>struggling in the breach of Jackson's line, Doubleday's division was in a
>defensive posture against Pelham and his gun.
>   I can't tell if this is sarcasm ("his gun") or not.
>
>   Was it not Doubleday's job to secure the left of the Union line?
>   Thanks.
>
>
>fred johanson <fred at uchicago.edu> wrote:
>   Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>
>Tom,
>
>Read his testimony to the JCCCW from Mar(?) '64. Doubleday seemed very
>conscious of being a Republican and abolitionist surrounded by McClellan
>Democrats. Add to that Meade's lingering resentment over the lack of
>support from Doubleday's division at Fredricksburg: while the reserves were
>struggling in the breach of Jackson's line, Doubleday's division was in a
>defensive posture against Pelham and his gun.
>
>
>
>At 05:38 AM 2/7/2007 -0800, you wrote:
> >Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> >Chet,
> > This is wonderful material. I will be sure to include thanks to you and
> > Jim Cameron in my book.
> > I intend to have an entire chapter in my book about Doubleday's strong
> > abolitionist and anti-secessionist feelings and actions and how those
> > clashed with many of his fellow officers.
> > Can you suggest a source for the political aspects of the Union army?
> >
> >Chet Diestel wrote:
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> >
> >Esteemed GDG Member James Cameron Contributes:
> >
> >1. There are a couple of often repeated anecdotes of his ordering his
> >arriving troops into battle, but the early part of the action is dominated
> >byReynolds and his death. After that, most of the attention given the Union
> >command seems to shift to Howard. This isn't, of course, surprising, given
> >that Howard was in command of the field after Reynolds was killed, but
> >it does tend to take the spotlight off Doubleday.
> >
> >I am fairly sure that Howard gave no orders to Doubleday for six hours.
> >What do you know?
> >It took Howard a long time to actually ride over to the 1st Corps line
> >and see Doubleday in person, but the two were in communication before that,
> >and Doubleday does indicate receiving orders from Howard.
> >
> >2. Early reports from the field, from both Buford and Hancock, tended
> >to confirm his already low opinion of Doubleday, and he lost no time acting
> >to replace him.
> >
> >Can you help me find these two reports "from both Buford and Hancock"?
> >Thanks very much for your interest.
> >Buford's message that I was referring to was actually to Pleasonton, not
> >Meade, although I think it's reasonable to assume that Meade would have been
> >informed of its contents. This was the 3:20 pm message in which he wrote
> >"In my opinion, there seems to be no directing person." He appended a P.S.,
> >"We need help now."
> >This message is commonly taken as more a criticism of Howard's command
> >of the field than of Doubleday, and perhaps that's how Buford intended it.
> >But with Doubleday the other Corps commander on the scene, I could easily
> >see Meade viewing this as critical of him as well. Just my opinion, though.
> >(And the thought just occurred to me - which I hesitate to push too far,
> >because there's really nothing concrete to base it on - that I suppose this
> >could even be construed as critical of Slocum for not coming up in person to
> >assume command.)
> >
> >The Hancock report I'm referring to is his 5:25 pm message to Meade from
> >the field, which included the comment that "Howard says that Doubleday's
> >command gave way." And Howard himself sent Meade a 5:00 PM message which
> >while not overtly critical of Doubleday, gave the impression that the 1st
> >Corps was forced to retire, as opposed to the 11th Corps being ordered back.
> >
> >None of these messages were the sort of thing that was going to boost
> >Meade's confidence in Doubleday. Taken as a whole, they were all he needed
> >to pull the trigger on replacing him.
> >
> >Jim Cameron
> >
> >The decision to remove Doubleday had roots that ran far deeper and with a
> >history extending far past his actions (or inaction), real or imagined, on
> >one hot July day on a Pennsylvania battlefield. Part of it certainly
> >involves the pro-McClellan and anti-McClellan fractions that still held sway
> >over certain members of the AOP high command and would not actively settle
> >down until the arrival of Grant the following year.
> >Indeed, the very scene that greeted Hancock and then Meade should have
> >worked against the removal of Doubleday, messages (with pointed negative
> >remarks, intended or not, aimed at Doubleday) aside. Once upon the field, it
> >should have been obvious to Hancock and later Meade that the I Corps units,
> >although battered, were still combat worthy with virtually all its artillery
> >intact, repositioned and ready on Cemetery Hill etc. --- all signs of a more
> >or less orderly retreat as opposed to the XI Corps in which both Barlow's
> >and Schurz's divisions had been obviously routed from their portion of the
> >battlefield and whose commanders were desperately trying to rally the men,
> >sort out what was left of the commands and make them combat worthy once
> >again.
> >One other thing on the removal of Doubleday --- it would have been one
> >thing if he had been replaced by a dynamic and aggressive young division
> >commander --- or even if Meade had placed Warren in command --- but John
> >Newton? On his worse day, Doubleday could have equaled if not outperformed
> >his replacement and Abner was coming off one of the best days of tactical
> >fighting that any general on either side had during the war.
> >With regard,
> >Chet
> >
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> >tombart0 at yahoo.com, Author, WalkieTalkie Fanning Bees; The Fierce Fun of
> >Ducky Medwick,(Scarecrow, May 2003), and Pepper Martin, A Baseball
> >Biography(McFarland, September, 2003). Forthcoming: on March 1, 2007:
> >Barnstorming 1901-1962 from McFarland and Those Peerless Semipros: The
> >Brooklyn Bushwicks of Dexter Park from St. Johann Press.
> > Now at work on a biography of civil war general Abner Doubleday.
> > Still in the works are a book on the 1941 Dodgers and a book on Babe
> > Ruth's ten years of barnstorming.
> >
> >
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>Fred Johanson
>ITSM Administrator
>University of Chicago
>773-702-8464
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://mailman.arthes.com/mailman/listinfo/gettysburg
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>You can add yourself to the GDG map at: 
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>View archived posts from May 2004 - present at 
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>
>
>tombart0 at yahoo.com, Author, WalkieTalkie Fanning Bees; The Fierce Fun of 
>Ducky Medwick,(Scarecrow, May 2003), and Pepper Martin, A Baseball 
>Biography(McFarland, September, 2003). Forthcoming: on March 1, 2007: 
>Barnstorming 1901-1962 from McFarland and Those Peerless Semipros: The 
>Brooklyn Bushwicks of Dexter Park from St. Johann Press.
>   Now at work on a biography of civil war general Abner Doubleday.
>   Still in the works are a book on the 1941 Dodgers and a book on Babe 
> Ruth's ten years of barnstorming.
>
>
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Fred Johanson
ITSM Administrator
University of Chicago
773-702-8464 