GDG- Re: The Union giving up in 1864?

Thu Feb 1 09:44:45 CST 2007

I agree with Professor McPherson's assessment that Lincoln was in serious jeopardy of not winning his re-election bid - based on the conditions and opinions that existed in August of 1864. One of the most powerful and often repeated phrases: " A vote for Lincoln is a vote for four more years of war and the loss of thousands of additional soldiers."

My students tend to be surprised that a great president like Lincoln actually faced the real possibility of not being re-elected. 

Tom Ryan <pennmardel at mchsi.com> wrote: Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

Hi R.L.,

 Thanks for your input on this subject.  Interesting points you make.  As
indicated in previous posts, I agree with your premise that Lincoln was in
danger of not being reelected.  Given your examination of this topic,
appreciate it if you could provide your conclusions.  Also, what is the
preponderance of opinion of your students after they study and discuss the
potential for Lincoln losing his reelection bid?

Regards, Tom Ryan

----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of R Murray
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:55 PM
To: GDG
Subject: Re: GDG- Re: The Union giving up in 1864?

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

  The potential for Lincoln losing his re-election bid is a significant
topic for study in the college class I teach. I first direct my students to
James McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom:
  Page 758: NY Times saying, "Lincoln is deader than dead." - after his call
for more troops in 1864.
  Page 761: Thurlow Weed, the Republican leader, stating - "Lincoln's
re-election is an impossibility." August 1864.
  Page 762, 769-770: Lincoln's insistence on including
emancipation/abolition as a party platform as political suicide.
  Page 770: Serious Republican efforts to nominate another candidate because
Lincoln so unpopular.
  Page 771: Lincoln expected to lose badly.
  Page 776: The influence of Atlanta politically.

  I then supply them with county by county election returns in New York.
Lincoln won by a mere 6,700 votes and this only because political pressure
on Seymour allowed them the count the soldiers' votes. Many previous
pro-Lincoln counties in 1860 became Pro-McClellan counties in 1864.

  Finally, we read through letters I have from soldiers writing home that
supported Lincoln (and why) and those that supported McClellan (and why).
Interesting discussions.

  R.L. Murray

"Laurence D. Schiller"  wrote:
  Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

Hi Greg - I think where I disagree is that while I would agree that
Lincoln was an astute politician, he was also a depressive and tended
to see the dark side of things. In addition, there were no political
polls - I have read analyses of the electorate in 1864 that strongly
suggest that there was little way that Lincoln would lose. And again,
I can't prove it, but I just can't see the Federal government just
giving up all that had been gained at such cost. Remember, this was
not a foreign war, but one that involved significant consequences for
the future of the country - and had thousands of Southerners who
opposed the Confederacy who would continue to clamor for succor. I
just don't see it. I don't think anything would have convinced
Lincoln to make peace on separation terms.

Best,

laurie

>Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>Laurie,
>
>I understand your points and have heard/read them from others.
>
>However, until Atlanta fell in September (reinforced by Cedar Creek and
>Mobile a bit later), all the north saw was loads of body bags in the east
and
>Atlanta hurling defiance in the west. The map indeed looked dire to
>the CSA but
>positions on a map are often not understood by civilians.
>
>Lincoln was probably one of the most politically astute presidents ever -
>and he if felt he was going to lose if something good did not happen
>soon, then
>there had to be something, in fact a lot of something, to that.
>
>My argument is that had Atlanta been as costly as
>Overland/Richmond/Petersburg - then who knows. A democracy/republic
>at war has really only one
>distinct weakness - the will of its people to keep the war going.
>That was what Lee
>meant when he said "resist manfully."
>
>Greg Biggs
>
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Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller
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