GDG- Re: The Union giving up in 1864?

[Laurence D. Schiller]

R.L. - interesting stuff - I'd love to hear more as I have a gut 
feeling from reading stuff but not as much specifics. It is an 
important topic.

Best,

Laurie Schiller


>Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>   The potential for Lincoln losing his re-election bid is a 
>significant topic for study in the college class I teach. I first 
>direct my students to James McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom:
>   Page 758: NY Times saying, "Lincoln is deader than dead." - after 
>his call for more troops in 1864.
>   Page 761: Thurlow Weed, the Republican leader, stating - 
>"Lincoln's re-election is an impossibility." August 1864.
>   Page 762, 769-770: Lincoln's insistence on including 
>emancipation/abolition as a party platform as political suicide.
>   Page 770: Serious Republican efforts to nominate another candidate 
>because Lincoln so unpopular.
>   Page 771: Lincoln expected to lose badly.
>   Page 776: The influence of Atlanta politically.
>   
>   I then supply them with county by county election returns in New 
>York. Lincoln won by a mere 6,700 votes and this only because 
>political pressure on Seymour allowed them the count the soldiers' 
>votes. Many previous pro-Lincoln counties in 1860 became 
>Pro-McClellan counties in 1864.
>   
>   Finally, we read through letters I have from soldiers writing home 
>that supported Lincoln (and why) and those that supported McClellan 
>(and why). Interesting discussions.
>   
>   R.L. Murray
>
>
>"Laurence D. Schiller" <lds307 at northwestern.edu> wrote:
>   Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
>Hi Greg - I think where I disagree is that while I would agree that
>Lincoln was an astute politician, he was also a depressive and tended
>to see the dark side of things. In addition, there were no political
>polls - I have read analyses of the electorate in 1864 that strongly
>suggest that there was little way that Lincoln would lose. And again,
>I can't prove it, but I just can't see the Federal government just
>giving up all that had been gained at such cost. Remember, this was
>not a foreign war, but one that involved significant consequences for
>the future of the country - and had thousands of Southerners who
>opposed the Confederacy who would continue to clamor for succor. I
>just don't see it. I don't think anything would have convinced
>Lincoln to make peace on separation terms.
>
>Best,
>
>laurie
>
>
>>Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>
>>
>>Laurie,
>>
>>I understand your points and have heard/read them from others.
>>
>>However, until Atlanta fell in September (reinforced by Cedar Creek and
>>Mobile a bit later), all the north saw was loads of body bags in the east and
>>Atlanta hurling defiance in the west. The map indeed looked dire to
>>the CSA but
>>positions on a map are often not understood by civilians.
>>
>>Lincoln was probably one of the most politically astute presidents ever -
>>and he if felt he was going to lose if something good did not happen
>>soon, then
>>there had to be something, in fact a lot of something, to that.
>>
>>My argument is that had Atlanta been as costly as
>>Overland/Richmond/Petersburg - then who knows. A democracy/republic
>>at war has really only one
>>distinct weakness - the will of its people to keep the war going.
>>That was what Lee
>>meant when he said "resist manfully."
>>
>>Greg Biggs
>>
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>
>--
>Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller
>Maitre d'Armes
>Head Fencing Coach
>Department of History
>Northwestern University
>Commissioner, Midwest Fencing Conference
>Midwest VP, US Fencing Coaches' Association
>Vice-Chair USFA Illinois Division
>Lds307 at northwestern.edu
>847-491-4654
>FAX 847-467-1406
>Official Sports site: http://nusports.ocsn.com/
>Student web site: http://groups.northwestern.edu/fencing/
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-- 
Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller
Maitre d'Armes
Head Fencing Coach
Department of History
Northwestern University
Commissioner, Midwest Fencing Conference
Midwest VP, US Fencing Coaches' Association
Vice-Chair USFA Illinois Division
Lds307 at northwestern.edu
847-491-4654
FAX 847-467-1406
Official Sports site: http://nusports.ocsn.com/
Student web site: http://groups.northwestern.edu/fencing/