GDG- Fighting for your state and therefore there was no perfect union

[Char & Charlie]

Oh gee now that I pleasantly bowed out of the dance I see that the band
wants to keep playing.  

So about a PERFECT UNION

I guess the original statement that started this was the reference to a
PERFECT UNION.  And my comment that there has never been a PERFECT UNION.
>From 1783 to the 1810's there were many doubters whether the nation would
survive and with a certain amount of justification.  Many thought that the
big three European countries were waiting for their chance to invade. Things
did not look perfect to then.  Britain did not remove its troops until the
late 1790s.  But internally there have always been division between
competing and separate interests that were predominately regional. Be it
fishing, expansion west, trade and yes slavery. Slavery was one of THE
regional issues that divided the UNION and contributed to decades of
disharmony. Not a lot of perfection during the first half of the 1800's.  I
think that it was this issue primarily that led to a defense of states
rights.  That a central government could not and will not tell us as a state
that we could not own slaves.  As slavery was a southern state institution
it is the south that is most associated with states rights.  I lied in my
previous post - I am reading something other than redcoats and rebels stuff.
I am reading 'First Blood' the story of Fort Sumter. (another one of the
high points of my east coast trip- visiting Fort Sumter) It is clear how
state interests trumped the national interests in the south Carolinians
minds including their U S Senators and sitting Cabinet members sworn the
uphold the constitution not their state government. Now there were instances
in the 1790's where northern states talked about forming a separate nation
it was mostly the south and the issue of slavery that had the most potential
for dissolving the union. What would you expect from a state that would not
ratify the Constitution and was allowed in during the Washington
administration.  When you have a large population willing to dissolve the
UNION and threatening it for decades - their was no perfect union.   

I agree with you that the process of becoming a Nation was a lengthy growing
process.  After all most of the colonies were entities of themselves from
their Charter by the Crown to governing themselves for 150 years.  It was
the resolution of the western territory and the opening of the Mississippi
from the Spanish that triggered expansion and led to greater harmony.  The
Virginian land speculators began to make money.  Land became available to
many that could not ever think of being a land owner.  It was still a time
that only land owners could vote.  

It was not until the Constitution that the government had the ability to
enter into treaty with other nations.  That was after the Articles left no
clear way to raise money, control commerce, and negotiate with other
governments.  So I do not see how you think that so much came out of the
Continental Congress.  (Once again it was SC that walked out of the 1st CC
over exportation of rice).  A primary instrument of Samuel Adams to gain
support from other colonies that if Massachusetts got into a fight with
British troops they would help. It was said that 'the delegates had given
the most dangerous man in America the most dangerous weapon he had ever
held'.  The agreement called the Continental Association was in affect a
declaration of was and not many men realized it.

Yes the Constitution is an enduring document that has few equals.  It is not
perfect. But what is?  The founders left it vague so that it could be
amended as it has been. I guess it can be argued that that has some level of
perfection in it.  But my point is that the colonies/states had too many
self-serving interests that caused friction for decades.  It was this
friction that made the Union imperfect not the Documents that brought about
the Union. And the behavior of states and the most disruptive to a perfect
union was SC time and time again.  So it is not surprising that it was the
first to dissolve the union.  But there was always some group unhappy about
something.
 
Charlie
Somewhere in the USA or back in CA


-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Lawrence
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:12 PM
To: GDG
Subject: RE: GDG- Fighting for your state

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:


Roll on