GDG- BMI

[Tom Ryan]

<<Babcock supplied Meade with a detailed and complete order of battle
including information that all of Lee's brigades had been engaged except
those of Pickett's division. It did not give size estimates or estimates of
the ANV losses on 1 and 2 July. There is a picture in Fishel and I have a
xerox of the original.>>

Bob,

	Just to clarify what you posted, Babcock did not provide Meade with a
"detailed and complete order of battle."  He did, however, provide him with
information to the effect that only Pickett's division had not yet been
committed to battle.  That was stated in a brief note to Meade.

	I assume what you are looking at the order of battle shown opposite page
369 in Fishel, which is an OB that the BMI provided to Hooker prior to the
Battle of Chancellorsville.  While this would have be informative to Meade,
it was no longer operable during the Gettysburg Campaign.  Also, there is no
evidence that Meade ever saw the Chancellorsville OB.

	The only OB known to be given to Meade at Gettysburg is for Ewell's corps
only.  However, in my opinion, that should have been the trigger for Meade
to request a complete OB on the ANV.  He evidently chose not to do this.
That is what I find to be surprising.

Tom Ryan



-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of
huddleston.r at comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:26 PM
To: GDG
Subject: RE: GDG- BMI


Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:


--
Take care,

Bob

Judy and Bob Huddleston
10643 Sperry Street
Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
huddleston.r at comcast.net

...the greatest and the noblest man of the last century was Abraham
Lincoln…Though America was his motherland and he was an American, he
regarded the whole world as his native land.

Mahatma Gandhi, August 26, 1905

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Tom Ryan" <pennmardel at mchsi.com>

> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Tim,
>
> At the July 2 commander's meeting, Meade reportedly passed along the
> BMI's
> information that Lee had used up his entire army with the exception of
> Pickett's division. You would think someone in that group would have been
> curious enough to want additional information from the BMI. In other
words,
> if they were able to determine how Lee had employed his army, wouldn't you
> want to know whether the BMI had more specific information about the
> strength and leadership of the ANV units?
>
> While I agree that we should not be overly critical, at the same time we
> cannot dismiss the fact that the AoP command was blue skying the size of
> Lee's army. I would have been a bit more inquisitive.
>
> Regards, Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
> [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of Tim Gennett
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:44 PM
> To: GDG
> Subject: Re: GDG- BMI
>
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>
>
> Sure, no problem with that. I only mean to point out that, beyond Patrick
> and perhaps Butterfield, NONE of the senior commanders of the AoP
recognized
> the value of the BMI intelligence. The work the BMI was doing was top
notch
> but revolutionary and ground breaking, and such things can be slow to gain
> widespread acceptance or understanding. Against that, I can be a bit
> critical of Meade for not "getting it" sooner, but I am compelled to
temper
> that criticism in recognizing the reality of the situation.
>
> Stated another way, would I have "gotten it" under the same circumstances?
> Doubtful.
>
> Regards, Tim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Ryan"
> To: "GDG"
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 09:44
> Subject: RE: GDG- BMI
>
>
> > Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> >
> >
> > Tim,
> >
> > It all depends on where we, the long distance observers, believe the
> > burden
> > should lie for recognizing and accepting the intelligence that the BMI
> > produced. In my opinion, that burden belongs on the AoP commanders.
>
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