GDG- Lee invades

Thu Jul 20 12:25:36 CDT 2006

Keith,

	Thank you kind sir.  I have a high regard for the GDG, its moderators and
members.  In the past three or four years of membership, I have learned so
much just by reading all the posts and venturing one on my own now and then.
A lot more recently as you no doubt have noted.

	When it comes to researching and writing about the Civil War, I have
learned that there is great benefit in listening to comments and criticism
of your ideas and incorporating that into your work, because the collective
group knows so much more than I ever will ever hope to acquire on my own.

	Probably what you are noting in Coddington is the fact that he was a
Northerner, therefore had the inherent bias that is difficult to eliminate
when writing on the subject.  Just like Lee's biographer Douglas Southall
Freeman had a distinct bias in favor of Lee.  In both cases, as long as you
are aware of it, you can take it with a grain of salt.

	With some exceptions, I have found that historians try to be as objective
as possible within the limitations of their own sometimes unconscious biases
and prejudices.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of keith mackenzie
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 12:55 PM
To: GDG
Subject: RE: GDG- Lee invades

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

Far as I can tell, You only get ostracized on this list if you do it to
yourself. I hope you won't. always learn something new from you. didn't
occur to me until you pointed it out, that lee wasn't so much a Confederate,
as he was a Virginian. Do you think coddington was a little less favorable
towards Lee than He was to Meade? i don't really get an anti-lee bias so
much as a pro meade feeling from the book. what do you think?
  K.

Tom Ryan <pennmardel at mchsi.com> wrote:
  Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

Keith,

Could not have said it better myself. And, as you can see, it hasn't
prevented me from proposing one subtle idea after another on this esteemed
network, and have not been totally ostracized as yet.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of keith mackenzie
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 12:18 PM
To: GDG
Subject: RE: GDG- Lee invades

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

tom: Thats just one persons opinion. One shouldn't take these things to
heart. Just because some cannot fathom the true depth of your genius, or the
sublime subtlety of your ideas, doesn't mean your completely wrong.
Happens to me all the time.
K.

Tom Ryan
wrote:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

it? doesn't that make it one of the what if's of the CW?>>

This was two or three years ago, so I cannot remember much of the actual
discussion. However, I do recall one esteemed member commenting that it was
the worst idea he had ever seen posted on the GDG, or something to that
effect. So that is a distinction that still stands as far as I know.
Someone will have to really be way out there to top the "worst" post ever.

Do I have any competition for this distinction?

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]On Behalf Of keith mackenzie
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:49 AM
To: GDG
Subject: RE: GDG- Lee invades

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

I mean, what if he had taken Scott's offer of all the Federal Army's? Would
one be taken to task for suggesting he should have?
Anyway, the confederates burned the iron works in late june, does anyone
know if any of those buildings are still around? Not the burned ones, but
maybe the workers houses or something like that?

K.

Tom Ryan
wrote:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

north in june of 63. Not all of them, of course , just one. Did he really
think that the feds would withdraw troops from Vicksburg? Or was that just
icing on the cake for Davis' benefit?>>

Keith,

No way of knowing what was in Lee's mind, but it may not be too much of a
stretch to believe that he was molifying the Richmond hierarchy, some of
whom had wanted Lee to detach troops to send in defense of Vicksburg. My
sense is that Lee was a Virginian first and a Confederate second, therefore
his top priority always was the defense of his home state. As a result,
again in my opinion, this limited his strategic thinking in terms of what
was the best way to win the war.

I think a good contrast is the willingness of U.S. Grant to go anywhere in
whatever capacity in order to defeat Rebel forces. Lee was not nearly as
flexible.

I once passed along the thought in this space that the best thing for the
Confederacy following Hooker's defeat at Chancellorsville would have been
for Lee to be sent to Mississippi to reorganize and rally the troops in
their confrontation with Grant -- leaving Longstreet behind to command the
ANV and keep an eye on the much deflated Union army. I got roundly taken to
task on that point by just about everyone who responded, so once burned I
will not return there.

Nevertheless, it makes sense that Lee would want to bolster his support for
an invasion of the North, and his recommendation that troops not be detached
from the ANV in support of the Rebel troops trying to save Vicksburg, by
claiming that the Northern invasion would relieve pressure on the siege of
Vicksburg.

Tom Ryan

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